From coover at fastmail.fm  Thu Jan  1 03:02:33 2009
From: coover at fastmail.fm (Russell W. Coover)
Date: Thu, 1 Jan 2009 00:02:33 -0800
Subject: TSGL: WMA --> MP3
In-Reply-To: <000701c96b9c$df588380$9e098a80$@com>
References: <000701c96b9c$df588380$9e098a80$@com>
Message-ID: <1AB5A06E70174E9B9788EA1B084F9CF4@OwnersPC>



-----Original Message-----
From: list-bounces at tsgserver.com [mailto:list-bounces at tsgserver.com] On
Behalf Of Lyn Blyden & Les Ungerleider
Sent: Wednesday, December 31, 2008 3:10 PM


Re: "LesUngeleider  in formaly snowy Seattle WA"

Not an answer to your question, but just wondering ...

Do the men wear Black Tie in Seattle when it snows?

_______________________________________________
Tech Support Guy Mailing List
http://www.tsgserver.com/list/



From annandchuck at yahoo.com  Fri Jan  2 13:00:23 2009
From: annandchuck at yahoo.com (Chuck Neuenschwander)
Date: Fri, 2 Jan 2009 10:00:23 -0800 (PST)
Subject: TSGL: eMachine still freezing video
In-Reply-To: <968738.25023.qm@web110208.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <749171.68454.qm@web110210.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>

Back to this computer again;? details below.
same thing still happening; freeze-up soon after boot-up
????????? with some blue-white diagonal pattern on the screen.
any one have any more ideas?

any suggestion on hardware-oriented users group similar to this one?

thanx,? Chuck


oh, I'm havin' fun.........
????   okay, I bought a one-gig memory stick.
ran the computer with it, only.
still hung up; blue/white stripes.
Not always the same pattern.
so I now have 1 1/2 meg installed.
It always powers up and usually freezes after
? 5 to 20 minutes.

No cleaning to do: it's spic & span.

I think I've at least wiggled all the connectors up & down.
Can't figure how to get some of? 'em loose.
Pulled one loose and instead of one piece, it was three.
I assume I reinstalled correctly. However the first time I rebooted,
after a few minutes I got a blue screen and message 
? DRIVER_IRQL_NOT_LESS_OR_EQUAL
and went on to say that if this is the first time to see this message
to reboot. Suspected bad install of hardware. If necessary, disable BIOS 
memory options such as caching or shadowing.? Dump proceeded.
I rebooted and it ran fine for 10 minutes or so.

Speedfan indicates 5 fans but only first two turned on.
I don't think there are more than two fans installed.
All 5 temps are approx 35C.? 

There's 2 open slots near the center of the motherboard. One white,
a larger one red. I assume one would be for a video card. Should I
try getting a video card?

I've installed Open Office and lots of virus/spyware checkers and I think
my daughter will love this computer, if I can just get it to keep running.

Anything else to try?

-chuck
          


--- On Sun, 12/28/08, Don Penlington <deepend at tpg.com.au> wrote:
From: Don Penlington <deepend at tpg.com.au>
Subject: TSGL: Need Help Restoring Registry Mistake Using CCleaner
To: "Tech Support Guy Mailing List" <list at tsgserver.com>
Date: Sunday, December 28, 2008, 8:11 AM

Chuck wrote:
> it got about 2/3 done and froze
>   mouse and all    ctrl-alt-del did nothing    had to power down>>


Could be anything, but likely overheating or bad RAM. Try reseating memory and
video card if any, check and clean around fans etc.

Remove, inspect,  and reseat the plug from power supply to motherboard.
Possibly a contact pin is corroded or burnt out from previous failure.

Download Speedfan (free) and monitor temperatures. Anything over 70c is
critical and the computer will prolly shut down to protect the system.

I'm assuming you have screensaver, scanning, and anything else that might
try to write to the hard drive turned off when defragging, as any hd activity
will discontinue defrag. Disable a-v. Try it in Safe Mode.

Defragging and scanning are quite intensive CPU and hd activities, so
overheating can easily occur.

I'm not sure what this has to do with Ccleaner.

Don Penlington



From slu at pupik.com  Fri Jan  2 20:16:21 2009
From: slu at pupik.com (Lyn Blyden & Les Ungerleider)
Date: Fri, 2 Jan 2009 17:16:21 -0800
Subject: TSGL: WMA --> MP3
In-Reply-To: <BAY110-W12A47BC934127CF338E3ECD0E40@phx.gbl>
References: <000701c96b9c$df588380$9e098a80$@com>
	<BAY110-W12A47BC934127CF338E3ECD0E40@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <000201c96d40$e3c28380$ab478a80$@com>

Thanks it worked fine. One question, the wma files have the album
information with them. Is there any way to automatically have the
information transferred with the music? The music is all legal from older
CD's.

Again Thanks

Les Ungerleider

-----Original Message-----
From: list-bounces at tsgserver.com [mailto:list-bounces at tsgserver.com] On
Behalf Of Geoff Glave
Sent: Wednesday, December 31, 2008 3:42 PM
To: list at tsgserver.com
Subject: Re: TSGL: WMA --> MP3


This application will do it for you:
 
http://www.nch.com.au/switch/
 
> What should I watch out for
 
1) If the WMA files are 'protected' with 'DRM' you won't be able to convert
them, as the protection will prevent them from winding up as MP3s:
 
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Windows_Media_DRM
 
2) If you want to place the MP3 in your iPod you will need to set the MP3
'tag' metadata (Title, Artist, Album, Track).  You can edit this manually in
windows, or use a program like this:
 
http://www.mp3tag.de/en/
 
Cheers,
Geoff> From: slu at pupik.com> To: list at tsgserver.com> Date: Wed, 31 Dec 2008
15:09:45 -0800> Subject: TSGL: WMA --> MP3> > I have a number of albums that
I placed into my media player, now is the> time to make them into MP3's.>
System is XP pro, up to date.> > How do I do this (in detail steps,
please!)> > What should I watch out for.> > This will be to load onto my
cell phone and (sometime in the future) to a> MP3 player.> > LesUngeleider
in formaly snowy Seattle WA> >
_______________________________________________> Tech Support Guy Mailing
List> http://www.tsgserver.com/list/
_________________________________________________________________
Drag n' drop-Get easy photo sharing with Windows LiveT Photos.
http://www.microsoft.com/windows/windowslive/photos.aspx
_______________________________________________
Tech Support Guy Mailing List
http://www.tsgserver.com/list/



From deepend at tpg.com.au  Sat Jan  3 10:36:41 2009
From: deepend at tpg.com.au (Don Penlington)
Date: Sun, 04 Jan 2009 01:36:41 +1000
Subject: TSGL: Access to bios
Message-ID: <4.3.2.20090104013117.00c55768@mail.tpg.com.au>

Is there any way to get into bios while XP is running?

If so, would any bios changes be effective on next boot?

I'd like to check something in the bios quickly without the hassle of 
rebooting and sitting on delete.

Don Penlington

 From the Beach at Surfers Paradise in sunny Queensland.
Computer tutorials, local scenery,  and other things at my website:
http://users.tpg.com.au/deepend/index1.html



From harleys at eastlink.ca  Sat Jan  3 13:04:10 2009
From: harleys at eastlink.ca (Sanford House)
Date: Sat, 3 Jan 2009 14:04:10 -0400
Subject: TSGL: Access to bios
References: <4.3.2.20090104013117.00c55768@mail.tpg.com.au>
Message-ID: <DE962AFDF0694E5ABFDAF19209D61D04@SHCCLaptopCF51>

I don't know of any way to get into bios after booting but there are a 
couple of programs I use to look at system features
aida32  download at http://majorgeeks.com/download181.html
and
belarc advisor
http://majorgeeks.com/download1385.html

I would be interested in what others are using .
Harley Sanford
from the mountains in B.C.   till tues when we have to leave the grandkids 
and return home to Nova Scotia... 



From coover at fastmail.fm  Sat Jan  3 13:35:09 2009
From: coover at fastmail.fm (Russell W. Coover)
Date: Sat, 3 Jan 2009 10:35:09 -0800
Subject: TSGL: Access to bios
In-Reply-To: <DE962AFDF0694E5ABFDAF19209D61D04@SHCCLaptopCF51>
References: <4.3.2.20090104013117.00c55768@mail.tpg.com.au>
	<DE962AFDF0694E5ABFDAF19209D61D04@SHCCLaptopCF51>
Message-ID: <CEE3E7104FFA4FAF963634DC54BA4315@AcerLaptop>

Harley,

Having no idea how to get into the BIOS while Windows is running, I'll leave
that question to others.

But as to the question regarding software "to look at system features", I no
longer use Aida32, as the free version is no longer under development. A
similar freeware, SIW, continues to improve and, in my opinion, is better
than Aida32 (freeware version).

http://www.gtopala.com/

Russ Coover 

-----Original Message-----
From: list-bounces at tsgserver.com [mailto:list-bounces at tsgserver.com] On
Behalf Of Sanford House
Sent: Saturday, January 03, 2009 10:04 AM
To: Tech Support Guy Mailing List
Subject: Re: TSGL: Access to bios

I don't know of any way to get into bios after booting but there are a 
couple of programs I use to look at system features
aida32  download at http://majorgeeks.com/download181.html
and
belarc advisor
http://majorgeeks.com/download1385.html

I would be interested in what others are using .
Harley Sanford
from the mountains in B.C.   till tues when we have to leave the grandkids 
and return home to Nova Scotia... 


_______________________________________________
Tech Support Guy Mailing List
http://www.tsgserver.com/list/



From deepend at tpg.com.au  Wed Jan  7 10:52:48 2009
From: deepend at tpg.com.au (Don Penlington)
Date: Thu, 08 Jan 2009 01:52:48 +1000
Subject: TSGL: cpu overheating
Message-ID: <4.3.2.20090108014933.00c5f058@mail.tpg.com.au>

I'm working on a friend's 6-month old computer. It has an Athlon 64-bit 
dual-core 4200 chip and running XP SP3 with 1 Gb RAM.

It has suddenly stopped booting into Windows. As soon as it is past the 
bios stage, it cuts out as if the power has been cut.

I suspected overheating, so I got into Bios and checked temps. The cpu, 
with only bios loaded, is slowly building up to 75c. At that point the 
power cuts out---I guess it's set to do so.

My guess therefore is that as soon as XP starts to load, cpu temperature 
may be increasing within a few seconds to the point where power cuts 
out.  Taking the sides off, the cpu is almost too hot to touch.

If I power off, blow air in via a desk fan, and wait several minutes for 
the system to cool, it will remain in bios for several minutes before 
cutting out. If I immediately try to reboot, it will cut out almost 
immediately. So it looks to me like a cpu overheating problem which is 
causing the boot failure.

Running temp under load is normally less than 50c for these chips.

What could be causing the cpu to overheat so rapidly?  Faulty power supply? 
It's only 6 months old!

Don Penlington



From Dan at DanKrause.com  Wed Jan  7 11:01:47 2009
From: Dan at DanKrause.com (Daniel Krause)
Date: Wed, 7 Jan 2009 11:01:47 -0500
Subject: TSGL: cpu overheating
In-Reply-To: <4.3.2.20090108014933.00c5f058@mail.tpg.com.au>
References: <4.3.2.20090108014933.00c5f058@mail.tpg.com.au>
Message-ID: <01cc01c970e1$3f5a12f0$be0e38d0$@com>

How about bad fan or no heat transfer pad or grease on the CPU?

-----Original Message-----
From: list-bounces at tsgserver.com [mailto:list-bounces at tsgserver.com] On
Behalf Of Don Penlington
Sent: Wednesday, January 07, 2009 10:53 AM
To: 'Tech Support Guy Mailing List'
Subject: TSGL: cpu overheating




From deepend at tpg.com.au  Wed Jan  7 12:21:06 2009
From: deepend at tpg.com.au (Don Penlington)
Date: Thu, 08 Jan 2009 03:21:06 +1000
Subject: TSGL: cpu overheating
In-Reply-To: <01cc01c970e1$3f5a12f0$be0e38d0$@com>
References: <4.3.2.20090108014933.00c5f058@mail.tpg.com.au>
	<4.3.2.20090108014933.00c5f058@mail.tpg.com.au>
Message-ID: <4.3.2.20090108031039.00c5e7d8@mail.tpg.com.au>

Daniel wrote:
>How about bad fan or no heat transfer pad or grease on the CPU?>>


The cpu and ps fans are OK. There's no case fan, which is a bit dodgy 
though seems to be common these days. But running it with sides off and a 
small deskfan blowing in, it's still overheating.

I've been thru the fan settings in bios, to make sure they're optimized.

The heat transfer paste did occur to me---but it was built by a reputable 
and experienced local shop, so not likely that's the problem, though it 
can't be ruled out. Good point.

The owner says it was trouble-free for the first 6 months. I'd guess if 
lack of thermal paste was the problem, it would have shown up when new.

Don Penlington




From hasanatkhan at gmail.com  Wed Jan  7 12:31:21 2009
From: hasanatkhan at gmail.com (A Hasanat Khan)
Date: Wed, 7 Jan 2009 23:31:21 +0600
Subject: TSGL: {Disarmed} Re:  cpu overheating
References: <4.3.2.20090108014933.00c5f058@mail.tpg.com.au><4.3.2.20090108014933.00c5f058@mail.tpg.com.au>
	<4.3.2.20090108031039.00c5e7d8@mail.tpg.com.au>
Message-ID: <2544A19ADF454A4AB9DB23EAB0918CC4@micron>

Don,

If the CPU fan and heat seal are OK, and the overheating started 6 months 
after purchase, I would think the CPU has developed a fault. The CPU should 
be under warranty, and may be replaced.

Hasanat
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Don Penlington" <deepend at tpg.com.au>
To: "Tech Support Guy Mailing List" <list at tsgserver.com>
Sent: 07/01/2009 11:21 PM
Subject: Re: TSGL: cpu overheating


> Daniel wrote:
>>How about bad fan or no heat transfer pad or grease on the CPU?>>
>
>
> The cpu and ps fans are OK. There's no case fan, which is a bit dodgy 
> though seems to be common these days. But running it with sides off and a 
> small deskfan blowing in, it's still overheating.
>
> I've been thru the fan settings in bios, to make sure they're optimized.
>
> The heat transfer paste did occur to me---but it was built by a reputable 
> and experienced local shop, so not likely that's the problem, though it 
> can't be ruled out. Good point.
>
> The owner says it was trouble-free for the first 6 months. I'd guess if 
> lack of thermal paste was the problem, it would have shown up when new.
>
> Don Penlington
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Tech Support Guy Mailing List
> http://www.tsgserver.com/list/
>
> -- 
> This message has been scanned for viruses and
> dangerous content by MailScanner, and is
> believed to be clean. 


-- 
This message has been scanned for viruses and
dangerous content by MailScanner, and is
believed to be clean.


From Engineman1 at aol.com  Wed Jan  7 13:57:32 2009
From: Engineman1 at aol.com (Engineman1 at aol.com)
Date: Wed, 7 Jan 2009 13:57:32 EST
Subject: TSGL: {Disarmed} Re:  cpu overheating
Message-ID: <c9e.44035500.3696551c@aol.com>


Several years ago my Compaq desktop started giving me the BSOD. 
I found that the power supply was oveerheating.
The cooling fan was slowing down.
 
After lubing it several times and finally replacing it the problem was  still 
there.
I connected a voltmeter to the fan power supply and found that the  voltage 
sometimes went down to 3V.
12 V is needed for full speed operation and the fan was turning too slow  for 
adequate cooling.
Everyone I talked too told me to get a new power supply.
 
I was suspicious that I might have a virus that my Norton AV might not  have 
detected.
I ran several virus scans with other AV programs and my slow fan problem  
went away.
Several viruses were detected.
 
It's been 3 years now and the problem hasn't recurred.
Even though this was my power supply fan, do you think it could be a  similar 
problem with your CPU fan?

Engineman
 
 

> Daniel wrote:
>>How about bad fan or no heat transfer pad  or grease on the CPU?>>
>
>
> The cpu and ps fans are  OK. There's no case fan, which is a bit dodgy 
> though seems to be common  these days. But running it with sides off and a 
> small deskfan blowing  in, it's still overheating.
>
> I've been thru the fan settings in  bios, to make sure they're optimized.
>
> The heat transfer paste  did occur to me---but it was built by a reputable 
> and experienced local  shop, so not likely that's the problem, though it 
> can't be ruled out.  Good point.
>
> The owner says it was trouble-free for the first 6  months. I'd guess if 
> lack of thermal paste was the problem, it would  have shown up when new.
>
> Don  Penlington
>
>
>
>  _______________________________________________
> Tech Support Guy Mailing  List
> http://www.tsgserver.com/list/
>
> -- 
> This  message has been scanned for viruses and
> dangerous content by  MailScanner, and is
> believed to be clean. 


-- 
This  message has been scanned for viruses and
dangerous content by MailScanner,  and is
believed to be  clean.

_______________________________________________
Tech Support  Guy Mailing  List
http://www.tsgserver.com/list/

**************New year...new news.  Be the first to know what is making 
headlines. (http://www.aol.com/?ncid=emlcntaolcom00000026)

From annandchuck at yahoo.com  Thu Jan  8 00:11:50 2009
From: annandchuck at yahoo.com (Chuck Neuenschwander)
Date: Wed, 7 Jan 2009 21:11:50 -0800 (PST)
Subject: TSGL: eMachine still freezing video
In-Reply-To: <749171.68454.qm@web110210.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <942690.13455.qm@web110210.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>




Back to this computer again;? details below.
same thing still happening; freeze-up soon after boot-up
????????? with some blue-white diagonal pattern on the screen.
any one have any more ideas?

any suggestion on hardware-oriented users group similar to this one?

thanx,? Chuck


oh, I'm havin' fun.........
????   okay, I bought a one-gig RAM.
ran the computer with it, only.
still hung up; blue/white stripes.
Not always the same pattern.
so I now have 1 1/2 gig installed.
It always powers up and usually freezes after
? 1 to 5 minutes.

No cleaning to do: it's spic & span.

I think I've at least wiggled all the connectors up & down.
Can't figure how to get some of? 'em loose.
Pulled one loose and instead of one piece, it was three.
I assume I reinstalled correctly. However the first time I rebooted,
after a few minutes I got a blue screen and message 
? DRIVER_IRQL_NOT_LESS_OR_EQUAL
and went on to say that if this is the first time to see this message
to reboot. Also said suspected bad install of hardware. If necessary, disable BIOS 
memory options such as caching or shadowing.? Dump proceeded.
I rebooted and it ran fine for 10 minutes or so.

Speedfan indicates 5 fans but only first two turned on.
I don't think there are more than two fans installed.
All 5 temps are approx 35C.? 

There's 2 open slots near the center of the motherboard. One white,
a larger one red. I assume one would be for a video card. Should I
try getting a video card?

I've installed Open Office and lots of virus/spyware checkers and I think
my daughter will love this computer, if I can just get it to keep running.

Anything else to try?

-chuck
          


--- On Sun, 12/28/08, Don Penlington <deepend at tpg.com.au> wrote:
From: Don Penlington <deepend at tpg.com.au>
Subject: TSGL: Need Help Restoring Registry Mistake Using CCleaner
To: "Tech Support Guy Mailing List" <list at tsgserver.com>
Date: Sunday, December 28, 2008, 8:11 AM

Chuck wrote:
> it got about 2/3 done and froze
>   mouse and all    ctrl-alt-del did nothing    had to power down>>


Could be anything, but likely overheating or bad RAM. Try reseating memory and
video card if any, check and clean around fans etc.

Remove, inspect,  and reseat the plug from power supply to motherboard.
Possibly a contact pin is corroded or burnt out from previous failure.

Download Speedfan (free) and monitor temperatures. Anything over 70c is
critical and the computer will prolly shut down to protect the system.

I'm assuming you have screensaver, scanning, and anything else that might
try to write to the hard drive turned off when defragging, as any hd activity
will discontinue defrag. Disable a-v. Try it in Safe Mode.

Defragging and scanning are quite intensive CPU and hd activities, so
overheating can easily occur.

I'm not sure what this has to do with Ccleaner.

Don Penlington


_______________________________________________
Tech Support Guy Mailing List
http://www.tsgserver.com/list/

From coover at fastmail.fm  Thu Jan  8 02:46:05 2009
From: coover at fastmail.fm (Russell W. Coover)
Date: Wed, 7 Jan 2009 23:46:05 -0800
Subject: TSGL: eMachine still freezing video
In-Reply-To: <942690.13455.qm@web110210.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>
References: <749171.68454.qm@web110210.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>
	<942690.13455.qm@web110210.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <5D2BA653B75A4F2986D1D9D761C73432@AcerLaptop>

This email group was started through the Help on the net group, a help forum
at http://www.techguy.org/ . They do have a separate hardware forum. 

Russ Coover

-----Original Message-----
From: list-bounces at tsgserver.com [mailto:list-bounces at tsgserver.com] On
Behalf Of Chuck Neuenschwander
Sent: Wednesday, January 07, 2009 9:12 PM
To: Tech Support Guy Mailing List
Subject: TSGL: eMachine still freezing video




Back to this computer again;? details below.
same thing still happening; freeze-up soon after boot-up
????????? with some blue-white diagonal pattern on the screen.
any one have any more ideas?

any suggestion on hardware-oriented users group similar to this one?

thanx,? Chuck


oh, I'm havin' fun.........
????   okay, I bought a one-gig RAM.
ran the computer with it, only.
still hung up; blue/white stripes.
Not always the same pattern.
so I now have 1 1/2 gig installed.
It always powers up and usually freezes after
? 1 to 5 minutes.

No cleaning to do: it's spic & span.

I think I've at least wiggled all the connectors up & down.
Can't figure how to get some of? 'em loose.
Pulled one loose and instead of one piece, it was three.
I assume I reinstalled correctly. However the first time I rebooted,
after a few minutes I got a blue screen and message 
? DRIVER_IRQL_NOT_LESS_OR_EQUAL
and went on to say that if this is the first time to see this message
to reboot. Also said suspected bad install of hardware. If necessary,
disable BIOS 
memory options such as caching or shadowing.? Dump proceeded.
I rebooted and it ran fine for 10 minutes or so.

Speedfan indicates 5 fans but only first two turned on.
I don't think there are more than two fans installed.
All 5 temps are approx 35C.? 

There's 2 open slots near the center of the motherboard. One white,
a larger one red. I assume one would be for a video card. Should I
try getting a video card?

I've installed Open Office and lots of virus/spyware checkers and I think
my daughter will love this computer, if I can just get it to keep running.

Anything else to try?

-chuck
          


--- On Sun, 12/28/08, Don Penlington <deepend at tpg.com.au> wrote:
From: Don Penlington <deepend at tpg.com.au>
Subject: TSGL: Need Help Restoring Registry Mistake Using CCleaner
To: "Tech Support Guy Mailing List" <list at tsgserver.com>
Date: Sunday, December 28, 2008, 8:11 AM

Chuck wrote:
> it got about 2/3 done and froze
>   mouse and all    ctrl-alt-del did nothing    had to power down>>


Could be anything, but likely overheating or bad RAM. Try reseating memory
and
video card if any, check and clean around fans etc.

Remove, inspect,  and reseat the plug from power supply to motherboard.
Possibly a contact pin is corroded or burnt out from previous failure.

Download Speedfan (free) and monitor temperatures. Anything over 70c is
critical and the computer will prolly shut down to protect the system.

I'm assuming you have screensaver, scanning, and anything else that might
try to write to the hard drive turned off when defragging, as any hd
activity
will discontinue defrag. Disable a-v. Try it in Safe Mode.

Defragging and scanning are quite intensive CPU and hd activities, so
overheating can easily occur.

I'm not sure what this has to do with Ccleaner.

Don Penlington


_______________________________________________
Tech Support Guy Mailing List
http://www.tsgserver.com/list/
_______________________________________________
Tech Support Guy Mailing List
http://www.tsgserver.com/list/



From edlynn at usa.com  Thu Jan  8 14:56:46 2009
From: edlynn at usa.com (EdlynnUSA)
Date: Thu, 8 Jan 2009 14:56:46 -0500
Subject: TSGL: delete duplicate diles
Message-ID: <001f01c971cb$3d956330$7aa4bdd8@mine>

Wow! I don't know how it happened, but while search through the Windows 
Explorer tree, I noticed that I had many, many duplicate files under Program 
Files.

Additionally, many of the listing had (+) SIGNS and many duplicate submenus 
underneath. Some started with ($) SIGNS.

There's a lot of this stuff, and probably dates back to an earlier 
reformatting and restoring that went slightly wrong.

Is there a program that can clean out the duplicates, but ask first?


Or, What can I do short of reformatting  and/or manually deleting as I go 
along?

I use XPPro SP2.

Virtual seegars for the right answer.

Thanks.  ED 


From orf at internode.on.net  Thu Jan  8 16:35:21 2009
From: orf at internode.on.net (Orf Bartrop)
Date: Fri, 09 Jan 2009 08:35:21 +1100
Subject: TSGL: delete duplicate diles
In-Reply-To: <001f01c971cb$3d956330$7aa4bdd8@mine>
References: <001f01c971cb$3d956330$7aa4bdd8@mine>
Message-ID: <49667199.4000601@internode.on.net>

If you have two or three copies of a file used by programs and you are 
given an option to delete a duplicate, which file(s) do you delete?
Duplicate file finders can be found using Google, search for "detect 
duplicate files".

EdlynnUSA wrote:
> Wow! I don't know how it happened, but while search through the 
> Windows Explorer tree, I noticed that I had many, many duplicate files 
> under Program Files.
>
> Additionally, many of the listing had (+) SIGNS and many duplicate 
> submenus underneath. Some started with ($) SIGNS.
>
> There's a lot of this stuff, and probably dates back to an earlier 
> reformatting and restoring that went slightly wrong.
>
> Is there a program that can clean out the duplicates, but ask first?
>
>
> Or, What can I do short of reformatting  and/or manually deleting as I 
> go along?
>
> I use XPPro SP2.
>
> Virtual seegars for the right answer.
>
> Thanks.  ED
> _______________________________________________
> Tech Support Guy Mailing List
> http://www.tsgserver.com/list/
>


From embitt at westnet.com.au  Thu Jan  8 18:07:00 2009
From: embitt at westnet.com.au (Eric and Merna Bitter)
Date: Fri, 9 Jan 2009 09:07:00 +1000
Subject: TSGL: delete duplicate diles
References: <001f01c971cb$3d956330$7aa4bdd8@mine>
	<49667199.4000601@internode.on.net>
Message-ID: <05c601c971e5$fbf5a8c0$0401a8c0@number12>


Hi, Ed.

Not about duplicates under Program Files, but how many of the comments
posted at links below are still valid today and/or for your situation?
(You may have to copy and paste as links will probably break.)

http://www.tsgserver.com/pipermail/list_tsgserver.com/2004-April/subject.htm
l
(about two-thirds down the page)

and
http://www.tsgserver.com/pipermail/list_tsgserver.com/2004-December/subject.
html
(about one-third down the page)

(If any of those posts qualify as "the right answer," you may present the
virtual seegar to the relevant individual/s -- I don't smoke.)

Merna


----- Original Message -----
From: "Orf Bartrop" <orf at internode.on.net>
To: "Tech Support Guy Mailing List" <list at tsgserver.com>
Sent: Friday, January 09, 2009 7:35 AM
Subject: Re: TSGL: delete duplicate diles


If you have two or three copies of a file used by programs and you are
given an option to delete a duplicate, which file(s) do you delete?
Duplicate file finders can be found using Google, search for "detect
duplicate files".

EdlynnUSA wrote:
> Wow! I don't know how it happened, but while search through the
> Windows Explorer tree, I noticed that I had many, many duplicate files
> under Program Files.
>
> Additionally, many of the listing had (+) SIGNS and many duplicate
> submenus underneath. Some started with ($) SIGNS.
>
> There's a lot of this stuff, and probably dates back to an earlier
> reformatting and restoring that went slightly wrong.
>
> Is there a program that can clean out the duplicates, but ask first?
>
>
> Or, What can I do short of reformatting  and/or manually deleting as I
> go along?
>
> I use XPPro SP2.
>
> Virtual seegars for the right answer.
>
> Thanks.  ED
> _______________________________________________
> Tech Support Guy Mailing List
> http://www.tsgserver.com/list/
>

_______________________________________________
Tech Support Guy Mailing List
http://www.tsgserver.com/list/


--
No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG.
Version: 7.5.552 / Virus Database: 270.10.5/1881 - Release Date: 2009-01-07
5:59 PM






From mikec at pcug.org.au  Fri Jan  9 06:28:14 2009
From: mikec at pcug.org.au (Mike Cassidy)
Date: Fri, 9 Jan 2009 22:28:14 +1100
Subject: TSGL: delete duplicate files
In-Reply-To: <49667199.4000601@internode.on.net>
Message-ID: <LPBBIMBEGNOAFIECDFFHKEAOEIAA.mikec@pcug.org.au>

You can use the freeware program EasyCleaner
<http://personal.inet.fi/business/toniarts/ecleane.htm> which has a
duplicate files function. Be warned, finding duplicate files takes a long
time and you do get false positives, especially for jpegs.

If you are looking to decide which copies to delete and which to keep:
caution is the watchword. For programs, I would recommend checking the
properties of the shortcut you use to start a program, note its path and
that is the one to keep. If you are looking at duplicate data files, usually
you want to keep the most recently modified copy but you should check out
the contents if in doubt.

If you have a good backup strategy in place then you can look to
reformatting your HDD, re-installing your programs and restoring your data
from backup. This way you get over the registry mess that can go with the
types of duplications you describe. But the key is a sound backup strategy!

Removing duplicates is a long, laborious process. Good luck!

MikeC

-----Original Message-----
From: list-bounces at tsgserver.com [mailto:list-bounces at tsgserver.com]On
Behalf Of Orf Bartrop
Sent: Friday, 9 January 2009 8:35 AM
To: Tech Support Guy Mailing List
Subject: Re: TSGL: delete duplicate diles


If you have two or three copies of a file used by programs and you are
given an option to delete a duplicate, which file(s) do you delete?
Duplicate file finders can be found using Google, search for "detect
duplicate files".

EdlynnUSA wrote:
> Wow! I don't know how it happened, but while search through the
> Windows Explorer tree, I noticed that I had many, many duplicate files
> under Program Files.
>
> Additionally, many of the listing had (+) SIGNS and many duplicate
> submenus underneath. Some started with ($) SIGNS.
>
> There's a lot of this stuff, and probably dates back to an earlier
> reformatting and restoring that went slightly wrong.
>
> Is there a program that can clean out the duplicates, but ask first?
>
>
> Or, What can I do short of reformatting  and/or manually deleting as I
> go along?
>
> I use XPPro SP2.
>
> Virtual seegars for the right answer.
>
> Thanks.  ED
> _______________________________________________
> Tech Support Guy Mailing List
> http://www.tsgserver.com/list/
>

_______________________________________________
Tech Support Guy Mailing List
http://www.tsgserver.com/list/



From edlynn at usa.com  Fri Jan  9 10:11:20 2009
From: edlynn at usa.com (EdlynnUSA)
Date: Fri, 9 Jan 2009 10:11:20 -0500
Subject: TSGL: delete duplicate files
References: <LPBBIMBEGNOAFIECDFFHKEAOEIAA.mikec@pcug.org.au>
Message-ID: <003a01c9726c$88a3cb40$7aa4bdd8@mine>

Mike -

Have  a virtual seegar.

ED
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Mike Cassidy" <mikec at pcug.org.au>
To: "Tech Support Guy Mailing List" <list at tsgserver.com>
Sent: Friday, January 09, 2009 6:28 AM
Subject: Re: TSGL: delete duplicate files


> You can use the freeware program EasyCleaner
> <http://personal.inet.fi/business/toniarts/ecleane.htm> which has a
> duplicate files function. Be warned, finding duplicate files takes a long
> time and you do get false positives, especially for jpegs.
>
> If you are looking to decide which copies to delete and which to keep:
> caution is the watchword. For programs, I would recommend checking the
> properties of the shortcut you use to start a program, note its path and
> that is the one to keep. If you are looking at duplicate data files, 
> usually
> you want to keep the most recently modified copy but you should check out
> the contents if in doubt.
>
> If you have a good backup strategy in place then you can look to
> reformatting your HDD, re-installing your programs and restoring your data
> from backup. This way you get over the registry mess that can go with the
> types of duplications you describe. But the key is a sound backup 
> strategy!
>
> Removing duplicates is a long, laborious process. Good luck!
>
> MikeC
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: list-bounces at tsgserver.com [mailto:list-bounces at tsgserver.com]On
> Behalf Of Orf Bartrop
> Sent: Friday, 9 January 2009 8:35 AM
> To: Tech Support Guy Mailing List
> Subject: Re: TSGL: delete duplicate diles
>
>
> If you have two or three copies of a file used by programs and you are
> given an option to delete a duplicate, which file(s) do you delete?
> Duplicate file finders can be found using Google, search for "detect
> duplicate files".
>
> EdlynnUSA wrote:
>> Wow! I don't know how it happened, but while search through the
>> Windows Explorer tree, I noticed that I had many, many duplicate files
>> under Program Files.
>>
>> Additionally, many of the listing had (+) SIGNS and many duplicate
>> submenus underneath. Some started with ($) SIGNS.
>>
>> There's a lot of this stuff, and probably dates back to an earlier
>> reformatting and restoring that went slightly wrong.
>>
>> Is there a program that can clean out the duplicates, but ask first?
>>
>>
>> Or, What can I do short of reformatting  and/or manually deleting as I
>> go along?
>>
>> I use XPPro SP2.
>>
>> Virtual seegars for the right answer.
>>
>> Thanks.  ED
>> _______________________________________________
>> Tech Support Guy Mailing List
>> http://www.tsgserver.com/list/
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Tech Support Guy Mailing List
> http://www.tsgserver.com/list/
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Tech Support Guy Mailing List
> http://www.tsgserver.com/list/
> 


From whpike at cox.net  Mon Jan 12 00:10:12 2009
From: whpike at cox.net (William Pike)
Date: Mon, 12 Jan 2009 00:10:12 -0500
Subject: TSGL: Access to bios
In-Reply-To: <4.3.2.20090104013117.00c55768@mail.tpg.com.au>
Message-ID: <20090112050810.GKGE3752.eastrmmtao104.cox.net@eastrmimpo02.cox.net>

 SiSoft Saundra will do it. There are several tweaking utilities that will
let you make "some" bios changes while the OS is running.

-----Original Message-----
From: list-bounces at tsgserver.com [mailto:list-bounces at tsgserver.com] On
Behalf Of Don Penlington
Sent: Saturday, January 03, 2009 10:37 AM
To: Tech Support Guy Mailing List
Subject: TSGL: Access to bios

Is there any way to get into bios while XP is running?

If so, would any bios changes be effective on next boot?

I'd like to check something in the bios quickly without the hassle of
rebooting and sitting on delete.

Don Penlington

 From the Beach at Surfers Paradise in sunny Queensland.
Computer tutorials, local scenery,  and other things at my website:
http://users.tpg.com.au/deepend/index1.html


_______________________________________________
Tech Support Guy Mailing List
http://www.tsgserver.com/list/




From campbell1930 at charter.net  Tue Jan 13 12:54:00 2009
From: campbell1930 at charter.net (Pearl and Wayne)
Date: Tue, 13 Jan 2009 11:54:00 -0600
Subject: TSGL: Traveling laptop
Message-ID: <002d01c975a7$ea708280$0401a8c0@computer>

I will soon need to travel all the States and Europe.   I will need to purchase a new laptop.   How can I equip it to access the internet anywhere in the world.   Must I depend on access at the hotels I will be living in?   Many thanks for any advise offered.   Wayne

From ian at iarp.ca  Wed Jan 14 00:05:55 2009
From: ian at iarp.ca (Ian Ramsey-Planck)
Date: Wed, 14 Jan 2009 00:05:55 -0500
Subject: TSGL: C++
Message-ID: <adc2940c0901132105l18244da9r4362f76dde0ac280@mail.gmail.com>

Hey, little off topic but seems to be a problem free week for most.
I'm interested in learning C++ and just wondering if anyone here has any
suggestions to good books with tutorials or websites with lots of examples
that i can play around with.

I currently have and use Visual Studio 2008 (from business) and have been
told that you can pull info from database tables... etc. Thats what i'd love
to figure out.

I am a beginner to this, i've done java and vb but from what i've seen so
far it's not even close to either so i'm in the new boat, slowly going
through stuff i can find online.

-- 
Thanks
Ian R-P

From coover at fastmail.fm  Wed Jan 14 02:36:31 2009
From: coover at fastmail.fm (Russell W. Coover)
Date: Tue, 13 Jan 2009 23:36:31 -0800
Subject: TSGL: Traveling laptop
In-Reply-To: <002d01c975a7$ea708280$0401a8c0@computer>
References: <002d01c975a7$ea708280$0401a8c0@computer>
Message-ID: <86D22382C5F8494C98F6E54D836E54D8@AcerLaptop>

I'd check with your Cell Phone provider to see if they have a worldwide
satellite internet service or internet phone service and what equipment you
will need to access the internet. If they do not have any of these services,
you'll have to depend on Hotels and "Internet Cafes", which you should be
able to find in virtually all large cities.

In addition, you'll need to check with them to see if your cell will work in
Europe, or if they have a phone that will work in Europe. They may not and
you may have to spend some money (such as purchase another phone) to make
that work. 

Good luck.

Russ Coover

 

-----Original Message-----
From: list-bounces at tsgserver.com [mailto:list-bounces at tsgserver.com] On
Behalf Of Pearl and Wayne
Sent: Tuesday, January 13, 2009 9:54 AM
To: list at tsgserver.com
Subject: TSGL: Traveling laptop

I will soon need to travel all the States and Europe.   I will need to
purchase a new laptop.   How can I equip it to access the internet anywhere
in the world.   Must I depend on access at the hotels I will be living in?
Many thanks for any advise offered.   Wayne
_______________________________________________
Tech Support Guy Mailing List
http://www.tsgserver.com/list/



From jonpan at onlinehome.de  Wed Jan 14 03:46:56 2009
From: jonpan at onlinehome.de (Jon)
Date: Wed, 14 Jan 2009 09:46:56 +0100
Subject: TSGL: C++
References: <adc2940c0901132105l18244da9r4362f76dde0ac280@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <B9B25F0A160F4995A4165F682C1B7815@johnsp2>

Hi Ian,

In a similar situation I was advised to look at Borland's Delphi 4. I never got very far,lacking motivation, but you might like to check it out.

John
Od/G
----- Original Message ----- 
From: Ian Ramsey-Planck 
To: TSGL 
Sent: Wednesday, January 14, 2009 6:05 AM
Subject: TSGL: C++


Hey, little off topic but seems to be a problem free week for most.
I'm interested in learning C++ and just wondering if anyone here has any
suggestions to good books with tutorials or websites with lots of examples
that i can play around with.

I currently have and use Visual Studio 2008 (from business) and have been
told that you can pull info from database tables... etc. Thats what i'd love
to figure out.

I am a beginner to this, i've done java and vb but from what i've seen so
far it's not even close to either so i'm in the new boat, slowly going
through stuff i can find online.

-- 
Thanks
Ian R-P
_______________________________________________
Tech Support Guy Mailing List
http://www.tsgserver.com/list/

From rbrunton at accesswave.ca  Wed Jan 14 05:24:39 2009
From: rbrunton at accesswave.ca (Ron Brunton)
Date: Wed, 14 Jan 2009 06:24:39 -0400
Subject: TSGL: C++
In-Reply-To: <adc2940c0901132105l18244da9r4362f76dde0ac280@mail.gmail.com>
References: <adc2940c0901132105l18244da9r4362f76dde0ac280@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <000c01c97632$4eaaab60$ec000220$@ca>

Hi Ian,

I taught myself C and then C++ quite a few years ago (25+). I started with
the C "bible" - "The C Programming Language" by Brian Kernighan & Dennis
Ritchie, Prentice Hall. I don't recall what reference I used to move from C
to C++. The syntax is quite similar, but not the same of course, as Java &
JavaScript. All of the language rules of C apply to C++. All functions must
be declared in a header file (extension .h) and all functions return a
value, unless declared as void. The big difference is that C++ involves
classes.

I currently program in C++ using Visual Studio 2005 (can't afford 2008) and
most of my programs are done using the Microsoft Foundation Classes,
primarily because that simplifies many very common tasks (e.g. handling
strings). When I started with C, I found handling strings one of the most
challenging aspects of the language. I think that's because strings make a
lot of use of pointers and pointers in C and C++ are very important.

I really like C++. Programming is something I've been doing as a
recreational activity for a long time. If you want to check out some of the
programming I've done, go to http://www.rbrunton.ca/BruntonSoft If you would
like the source for one of the programs, let me know. When I have a bit more
time, I'll see if I can find some of the C++ books that got me started.

Good luck - it's been a fun journey.

Ron

-----Original Message-----
From: list-bounces at tsgserver.com [mailto:list-bounces at tsgserver.com] On
Behalf Of Ian Ramsey-Planck
Sent: January-14-09 1:06 AM
To: TSGL
Subject: TSGL: C++

Hey, little off topic but seems to be a problem free week for most.
I'm interested in learning C++ and just wondering if anyone here has any
suggestions to good books with tutorials or websites with lots of examples
that i can play around with.

I currently have and use Visual Studio 2008 (from business) and have been
told that you can pull info from database tables... etc. Thats what i'd love
to figure out.

I am a beginner to this, i've done java and vb but from what i've seen so
far it's not even close to either so i'm in the new boat, slowly going
through stuff i can find online.

-- 
Thanks
Ian R-P
_______________________________________________
Tech Support Guy Mailing List
http://www.tsgserver.com/list/

__________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature
database 3763 (20090113) __________

The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus.

http://www.eset.com


 

__________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature
database 3763 (20090113) __________

The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus.

http://www.eset.com
 



From misterclever at hotmail.com  Wed Jan 14 14:10:46 2009
From: misterclever at hotmail.com (Geoff Glave)
Date: Wed, 14 Jan 2009 11:10:46 -0800
Subject: TSGL: Traveling laptop
In-Reply-To: <002d01c975a7$ea708280$0401a8c0@computer>
References: <002d01c975a7$ea708280$0401a8c0@computer>
Message-ID: <BAY110-W4578123D9AE234F054D78ED0D60@phx.gbl>


There's a very good forum here that will be able to provide you with lots of advice:
 
http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/travel-technology-169/
 
That being said, I can tell you that depending on how you research this it can be a very expensive proposition.  There are numerous data cards you can purchase that plug into your laptop that allow you to connect to data networks elsewhere in the world.  For example:
 
http://www.wireless.att.com/cell-phone-service/cell-phones/pc-cards.jsp
 
However, depending on your plan and where you roam you may find your data costs through the roof, i.e. you may be on an all-you-can-eat plan in the USA, but when you roam to Canada - KA-CHING.  Things are further complicated by the fact that you're charged per-byte, a metric that's often not easily measurable.
 
A much cheaper solution will be to utilize WiFi wireless.  Virtually all laptops sold today come with a built-in wireless networking system called WiFi.  To connect to the internet you simply turn on your WiFi and use your software to look for an "access point."  You then connect to the access point and you're good to go.  Most access points have a range of several hundred feet.  Almost all hotels have access points as do many airports, train stations, coffee shops - Some are free to connect to (at budget hotels and coffee shops, for example), some have a minimal charge (airports or internet cafes), some (generally posh hotels) are expensive ($25 for 24 hours).
 
If you do a big of googling you'll find there are web pages that list access point locations for your destination - Although every day thousands more come online around the world, so you'll likely be surprised at the number you can 'see.'
 > From: campbell1930 at charter.net> To: list at tsgserver.com> Date: Tue, 13 Jan 2009 11:54:00 -0600> Subject: TSGL: Traveling laptop> > I will soon need to travel all the States and Europe. I will need to purchase a new laptop. How can I equip it to access the internet anywhere in the world. Must I depend on access at the hotels I will be living in? Many thanks for any advise offered. Wayne> _______________________________________________> Tech Support Guy Mailing List> http://www.tsgserver.com/list/
_________________________________________________________________
Keep in touch and up to date with friends and family. Make the connection now.
http://www.microsoft.com/windows/windowslive/

From embitt at westnet.com.au  Thu Jan 15 09:16:18 2009
From: embitt at westnet.com.au (Eric and Merna Bitter)
Date: Fri, 16 Jan 2009 00:16:18 +1000
Subject: TSGL: C++
References: <adc2940c0901132105l18244da9r4362f76dde0ac280@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <004e01c9771b$dcce4de0$0401a8c0@number12>

Googling        "C++" + "free book" + "download"
produced 32,000 results at the following link (which you will have to copy
and paste because it will break):

http://www.google.com.au/search?hl=en&q=%22C%2B%2B%22+%2B+%22free+book%22+%2
B+%22download%22&btnG=Google+Search&meta=

Merna



----- Original Message -----
From: "Ian Ramsey-Planck" <ian at iarp.ca>
To: "TSGL" <list at tsgserver.com>
Sent: Wednesday, January 14, 2009 3:05 PM
Subject: TSGL: C++


Hey, little off topic but seems to be a problem free week for most.
I'm interested in learning C++ and just wondering if anyone here has any
suggestions to good books with tutorials or websites with lots of examples
that i can play around with.

I currently have and use Visual Studio 2008 (from business) and have been
told that you can pull info from database tables... etc. Thats what i'd love
to figure out.

I am a beginner to this, i've done java and vb but from what i've seen so
far it's not even close to either so i'm in the new boat, slowly going
through stuff i can find online.

--
Thanks
Ian R-P
_______________________________________________
Tech Support Guy Mailing List
http://www.tsgserver.com/list/


--
No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG.
Version: 7.5.552 / Virus Database: 270.10.7/1894 - Release Date: 2009-01-14
7:27 PM





From ian at iarp.ca  Thu Jan 15 10:37:40 2009
From: ian at iarp.ca (Ian Ramsey-Planck)
Date: Thu, 15 Jan 2009 10:37:40 -0500
Subject: TSGL: C++
In-Reply-To: <004e01c9771b$dcce4de0$0401a8c0@number12>
References: <adc2940c0901132105l18244da9r4362f76dde0ac280@mail.gmail.com>
	<004e01c9771b$dcce4de0$0401a8c0@number12>
Message-ID: <adc2940c0901150737j13d7118fn1ced4d29c78e77d8@mail.gmail.com>

Thanks i'll have to look through the results.
Ron Brunton, you wouldn't happen to have the source for Password Management
PList? It would be interesting to see how things are encrypted and
decrypted.

Thanks
Ian

On Thu, Jan 15, 2009 at 9:16 AM, Eric and Merna Bitter <
embitt at westnet.com.au> wrote:

> Googling        "C++" + "free book" + "download"
> produced 32,000 results at the following link (which you will have to copy
> and paste because it will break):
>
>
> http://www.google.com.au/search?hl=en&q=%22C%2B%2B%22+%2B+%22free+book%22+%2
> B+%22download%22&btnG=Google+Search&meta=<http://www.google.com.au/search?hl=en&q=%22C%2B%2B%22+%2B+%22free+book%22+%2B+%22download%22&btnG=Google+Search&meta=>
>
> Merna
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Ian Ramsey-Planck" <ian at iarp.ca>
> To: "TSGL" <list at tsgserver.com>
> Sent: Wednesday, January 14, 2009 3:05 PM
> Subject: TSGL: C++
>
>
> Hey, little off topic but seems to be a problem free week for most.
> I'm interested in learning C++ and just wondering if anyone here has any
> suggestions to good books with tutorials or websites with lots of examples
> that i can play around with.
>
> I currently have and use Visual Studio 2008 (from business) and have been
> told that you can pull info from database tables... etc. Thats what i'd
> love
> to figure out.
>
> I am a beginner to this, i've done java and vb but from what i've seen so
> far it's not even close to either so i'm in the new boat, slowly going
> through stuff i can find online.
>
> --
> Thanks
> Ian R-P
> _______________________________________________
> Tech Support Guy Mailing List
> http://www.tsgserver.com/list/
>
>
> --
> No virus found in this incoming message.
> Checked by AVG.
> Version: 7.5.552 / Virus Database: 270.10.7/1894 - Release Date: 2009-01-14
> 7:27 PM
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Tech Support Guy Mailing List
> http://www.tsgserver.com/list/
>



-- 
Thanks
Ian R-P
Patience is a virtue.

From golddave at gmail.com  Thu Jan 15 11:04:52 2009
From: golddave at gmail.com (David Goldstein)
Date: Thu, 15 Jan 2009 11:04:52 -0500
Subject: TSGL: C++
In-Reply-To: <adc2940c0901132105l18244da9r4362f76dde0ac280@mail.gmail.com>
References: <adc2940c0901132105l18244da9r4362f76dde0ac280@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <f133ff3d0901150804h27ab9b72j7a8964eaf3aa8bf1@mail.gmail.com>

When I first learned C++ several years ago the following books were
suggested to me:
Who's Afraid of C++? - http://tinyurl.com/8fef3h
Who's Afraid of More C++? - http://tinyurl.com/7xu4al

They are great instructional books for beginners.  I don't think they
will get you to your endgame but are tremendously helpful for anyone
looking to learn C++.

- Dave

On Wed, Jan 14, 2009 at 12:05 AM, Ian Ramsey-Planck <ian at iarp.ca> wrote:
>
> Hey, little off topic but seems to be a problem free week for most.
> I'm interested in learning C++ and just wondering if anyone here has any
> suggestions to good books with tutorials or websites with lots of examples
> that i can play around with.
>
> I currently have and use Visual Studio 2008 (from business) and have been
> told that you can pull info from database tables... etc. Thats what i'd love
> to figure out.
>
> I am a beginner to this, i've done java and vb but from what i've seen so
> far it's not even close to either so i'm in the new boat, slowly going
> through stuff i can find online.
>
> --
> Thanks
> Ian R-P
> _______________________________________________
> Tech Support Guy Mailing List
> http://www.tsgserver.com/list/


From kathryn at bassett.net  Thu Jan 15 19:56:44 2009
From: kathryn at bassett.net (Kathryn Bassett)
Date: Thu, 15 Jan 2009 16:56:44 -0800
Subject: TSGL: Outlook rule question
Message-ID: <92A2498E21D04138BCEC3723B0E09EA9@KathrynVista>

I have Outlook2003 and have a rule I want to set up and can't figure out how
to do it. I have a real good spam blocker on the server side of my email
(email service by everyone.net), but there is one email that does not get
caught. The entire email is an image (linked) and starts out Your Debts
Could Make You Rich. Here's a sample of who it's from:

john.cmfdcll at yourmeterreader.com; on behalf of; J. Cummuta
[Secret11nji at yourmeterreader.com]

It would be a simple rule execpt for one thing. The ONLY commonality that
these emails (that come 2-3 times a day) share is the "on behalf of J.
Cummuta". I can't figure out how to make a rule on the "name" in the on
behalf of portion. If there was a way to filter on Cummuta, I could send
these suckers straight to the trash.

Can anyone help?

--
Kathryn Rhinehart Bassett (Pasadena CA)
"Genealogy is my bag" "GH is my soap"
kathryn at bassett.net
http://bassett.net   



From ian at iarp.ca  Thu Jan 15 20:03:01 2009
From: ian at iarp.ca (Ian Ramsey-Planck)
Date: Thu, 15 Jan 2009 20:03:01 -0500
Subject: TSGL: Outlook rule question
In-Reply-To: <92A2498E21D04138BCEC3723B0E09EA9@KathrynVista>
References: <92A2498E21D04138BCEC3723B0E09EA9@KathrynVista>
Message-ID: <adc2940c0901151703h486156e4tcb746304ad91762e@mail.gmail.com>

When i go to create a new rule, it gives me the option to select 'Where the
subject line contains specific words' or 'Where the message body contains
specific words' wouldn't that work?

On Thu, Jan 15, 2009 at 7:56 PM, Kathryn Bassett <kathryn at bassett.net>wrote:

> I have Outlook2003 and have a rule I want to set up and can't figure out
> how
> to do it. I have a real good spam blocker on the server side of my email
> (email service by everyone.net), but there is one email that does not get
> caught. The entire email is an image (linked) and starts out Your Debts
> Could Make You Rich. Here's a sample of who it's from:
>
> john.cmfdcll at yourmeterreader.com; on behalf of; J. Cummuta
> [Secret11nji at yourmeterreader.com]
>
> It would be a simple rule execpt for one thing. The ONLY commonality that
> these emails (that come 2-3 times a day) share is the "on behalf of J.
> Cummuta". I can't figure out how to make a rule on the "name" in the on
> behalf of portion. If there was a way to filter on Cummuta, I could send
> these suckers straight to the trash.
>
> Can anyone help?
>
> --
> Kathryn Rhinehart Bassett (Pasadena CA)
> "Genealogy is my bag" "GH is my soap"
> kathryn at bassett.net
> http://bassett.net
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Tech Support Guy Mailing List
> http://www.tsgserver.com/list/
>



-- 
Thanks
Ian R-P
Patience is a virtue.

From kathryn at bassett.net  Fri Jan 16 00:29:05 2009
From: kathryn at bassett.net (Kathryn Bassett)
Date: Thu, 15 Jan 2009 21:29:05 -0800
Subject: TSGL: Outlook rule question
In-Reply-To: <adc2940c0901151703h486156e4tcb746304ad91762e@mail.gmail.com>
References: <92A2498E21D04138BCEC3723B0E09EA9@KathrynVista>
	<adc2940c0901151703h486156e4tcb746304ad91762e@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <62B86C1344B343EF832553EF4C511A83@KathrynVista>

Neither would work. The subject line is never the same and there is no text
at all in the body, just an "image" of text. In fact, when I tried to
"select" some text to copy, that is when I found out that it was a linked
image.

> -----Original Message-----
> From: list-bounces at tsgserver.com 
> [mailto:list-bounces at tsgserver.com] On Behalf Of Ian Ramsey-Planck
> Sent: 15 Jan 2009 5:03 PM
> To: Tech Support Guy Mailing List
> Subject: Re: TSGL: Outlook rule question
> 
> When i go to create a new rule, it gives me the option to 
> select 'Where the subject line contains specific words' or 
> 'Where the message body contains specific words' wouldn't that work?
> 
> On Thu, Jan 15, 2009 at 7:56 PM, Kathryn Bassett 
> <kathryn at bassett.net>wrote:
> 
> > I have Outlook2003 and have a rule I want to set up and 
> can't figure 
> > out how to do it. I have a real good spam blocker on the 
> server side 
> > of my email (email service by everyone.net), but there is one email 
> > that does not get caught. The entire email is an image (linked) and 
> > starts out Your Debts Could Make You Rich. Here's a sample 
> of who it's 
> > from:
> >
> > john.cmfdcll at yourmeterreader.com; on behalf of; J. Cummuta 
> > [Secret11nji at yourmeterreader.com]
> >
> > It would be a simple rule execpt for one thing. The ONLY 
> commonality 
> > that these emails (that come 2-3 times a day) share is the 
> "on behalf of J.
> > Cummuta". I can't figure out how to make a rule on the 
> "name" in the 
> > on behalf of portion. If there was a way to filter on 
> Cummuta, I could 
> > send these suckers straight to the trash.
> >
> > Can anyone help?
> >
> > --
> > Kathryn Rhinehart Bassett (Pasadena CA) "Genealogy is my 
> bag" "GH is 
> > my soap"
> > kathryn at bassett.net
> > http://bassett.net
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Tech Support Guy Mailing List
> > http://www.tsgserver.com/list/
> >
> 
> 
> 
> --
> Thanks
> Ian R-P
> Patience is a virtue.
> _______________________________________________
> Tech Support Guy Mailing List
> http://www.tsgserver.com/list/



From ian at iarp.ca  Fri Jan 16 00:40:15 2009
From: ian at iarp.ca (Ian Ramsey-Planck)
Date: Fri, 16 Jan 2009 00:40:15 -0500
Subject: TSGL: C++
In-Reply-To: <f133ff3d0901150804h27ab9b72j7a8964eaf3aa8bf1@mail.gmail.com>
References: <adc2940c0901132105l18244da9r4362f76dde0ac280@mail.gmail.com>
	<f133ff3d0901150804h27ab9b72j7a8964eaf3aa8bf1@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <adc2940c0901152140w73ed92c1x4138988cdb24e84@mail.gmail.com>

Interesting thing today, ran into some old friends i used to be with in an
old course at college and there telling me that C# is better to go with? or
is just a fact that it's easier to write C# and that C++ is better? I get
confused sometimes with the differences for C C# C++ ... oyvey

On Thu, Jan 15, 2009 at 11:04 AM, David Goldstein <golddave at gmail.com>wrote:

> When I first learned C++ several years ago the following books were
> suggested to me:
> Who's Afraid of C++? - http://tinyurl.com/8fef3h
> Who's Afraid of More C++? - http://tinyurl.com/7xu4al
>
> They are great instructional books for beginners.  I don't think they
> will get you to your endgame but are tremendously helpful for anyone
> looking to learn C++.
>
> - Dave
>
> On Wed, Jan 14, 2009 at 12:05 AM, Ian Ramsey-Planck <ian at iarp.ca> wrote:
> >
> > Hey, little off topic but seems to be a problem free week for most.
> > I'm interested in learning C++ and just wondering if anyone here has any
> > suggestions to good books with tutorials or websites with lots of
> examples
> > that i can play around with.
> >
> > I currently have and use Visual Studio 2008 (from business) and have been
> > told that you can pull info from database tables... etc. Thats what i'd
> love
> > to figure out.
> >
> > I am a beginner to this, i've done java and vb but from what i've seen so
> > far it's not even close to either so i'm in the new boat, slowly going
> > through stuff i can find online.
> >
> > --
> > Thanks
> > Ian R-P
> > _______________________________________________
> > Tech Support Guy Mailing List
> > http://www.tsgserver.com/list/
>
> _______________________________________________
> Tech Support Guy Mailing List
> http://www.tsgserver.com/list/
>



-- 
Thanks
Ian R-P
Patience is a virtue.

From rbrunton at accesswave.ca  Fri Jan 16 05:14:26 2009
From: rbrunton at accesswave.ca (Ron Brunton)
Date: Fri, 16 Jan 2009 06:14:26 -0400
Subject: TSGL: C++
In-Reply-To: <adc2940c0901152140w73ed92c1x4138988cdb24e84@mail.gmail.com>
References: <adc2940c0901132105l18244da9r4362f76dde0ac280@mail.gmail.com>
	<f133ff3d0901150804h27ab9b72j7a8964eaf3aa8bf1@mail.gmail.com>
	<adc2940c0901152140w73ed92c1x4138988cdb24e84@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <000d01c977c3$363bb320$a2b31960$@ca>

I think it's clear that C# is gaining a great deal of popularity over the
last few years. I think there may some key advantages in the ability to link
with .NET technologies and produce web-based applications more easily. I
asked my son (currently working on his doctorate in Computer Science) if C#
was worth learning and he thought Java (not JavaScript) was better than C#,
but he uses C++. I think C# has the other advantage of being supported by
Microsoft and Visual Studio. I may yet take the plunge and try to learn C#,
but for now I'm sticking with C++.

Ron

-----Original Message-----
From: list-bounces at tsgserver.com [mailto:list-bounces at tsgserver.com] On
Behalf Of Ian Ramsey-Planck
Sent: January-16-09 1:40 AM
To: Tech Support Guy Mailing List
Subject: Re: TSGL: C++

Interesting thing today, ran into some old friends i used to be with in an
old course at college and there telling me that C# is better to go with? or
is just a fact that it's easier to write C# and that C++ is better? I get
confused sometimes with the differences for C C# C++ ... oyvey

On Thu, Jan 15, 2009 at 11:04 AM, David Goldstein <golddave at gmail.com>wrote:

> When I first learned C++ several years ago the following books were
> suggested to me:
> Who's Afraid of C++? - http://tinyurl.com/8fef3h
> Who's Afraid of More C++? - http://tinyurl.com/7xu4al
>
> They are great instructional books for beginners.  I don't think they
> will get you to your endgame but are tremendously helpful for anyone
> looking to learn C++.
>
> - Dave
>
> On Wed, Jan 14, 2009 at 12:05 AM, Ian Ramsey-Planck <ian at iarp.ca> wrote:
> >
> > Hey, little off topic but seems to be a problem free week for most.
> > I'm interested in learning C++ and just wondering if anyone here has any
> > suggestions to good books with tutorials or websites with lots of
> examples
> > that i can play around with.
> >
> > I currently have and use Visual Studio 2008 (from business) and have
been
> > told that you can pull info from database tables... etc. Thats what i'd
> love
> > to figure out.
> >
> > I am a beginner to this, i've done java and vb but from what i've seen
so
> > far it's not even close to either so i'm in the new boat, slowly going
> > through stuff i can find online.
> >
> > --
> > Thanks
> > Ian R-P
> > _______________________________________________
> > Tech Support Guy Mailing List
> > http://www.tsgserver.com/list/
>
> _______________________________________________
> Tech Support Guy Mailing List
> http://www.tsgserver.com/list/
>



-- 
Thanks
Ian R-P
Patience is a virtue.
_______________________________________________
Tech Support Guy Mailing List
http://www.tsgserver.com/list/

__________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature
database 3770 (20090116) __________

The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus.

http://www.eset.com


 

__________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature
database 3770 (20090116) __________

The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus.

http://www.eset.com
 



From nade at gorge.net  Fri Jan 16 11:51:09 2009
From: nade at gorge.net (Sylvia Gould)
Date: Fri, 16 Jan 2009 08:51:09 -0800
Subject: TSGL: Desktop icon needed
Message-ID: <6.1.0.6.2.20090116084942.026a8788@POP3.gorge.net>

I don't remember how to create an icon that will restore the desktop when 
other applications are open.  Can't seem to stumble onto the process. Thanks.
Sylvia Gould



From ian at iarp.ca  Fri Jan 16 12:53:59 2009
From: ian at iarp.ca (Ian Ramsey-Planck)
Date: Fri, 16 Jan 2009 12:53:59 -0500
Subject: TSGL: Desktop icon needed
In-Reply-To: <6.1.0.6.2.20090116084942.026a8788@POP3.gorge.net>
References: <6.1.0.6.2.20090116084942.026a8788@POP3.gorge.net>
Message-ID: <adc2940c0901160953u264d93c4k2606709398b9cc28@mail.gmail.com>

I believe this is what your wanting.
Open notepad and type in
[Shell]
Command=2
IconFile=explorer.exe,3
[Taskbar]
Command=ToggleDesktop

Save the file as "Show Desktop.scf" (make sure to add quotes around it as to
make sure it saves as .scf and not .scf.txt) in this location:

C:\Documents and Settings\usernamehere\Application Data\Microsoft\Internet
Explorer\Quick Launch

Replacing usernamehere with your username.

Hope this helps and is what your after.

That will add the Show Desktop link in the Quick Launch menu.
On Fri, Jan 16, 2009 at 11:51 AM, Sylvia Gould <nade at gorge.net> wrote:

> I don't remember how to create an icon that will restore the desktop when
> other applications are open.  Can't seem to stumble onto the process.
> Thanks.
> Sylvia Gould
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Tech Support Guy Mailing List
> http://www.tsgserver.com/list/
>



-- 
Thanks
Ian R-P
Patience is a virtue.

From deepend at tpg.com.au  Fri Jan 16 18:46:15 2009
From: deepend at tpg.com.au (Don Penlington)
Date: Sat, 17 Jan 2009 09:46:15 +1000
Subject: TSGL: Desktop icon needed
In-Reply-To: <6.1.0.6.2.20090116084942.026a8788@POP3.gorge.net>
Message-ID: <4.3.2.20090117094334.00c76370@mail.tpg.com.au>

Sylvia wrote:
>restore the desktop when other applications are open>>


Windows key + m does it easier.

Don Penlington



 From the Beach at Surfers Paradise in sunny Queensland.
Computer tutorials, local scenery,  and other things at my website:
http://users.tpg.com.au/deepend/index1.html



From mikec at pcug.org.au  Fri Jan 16 20:08:23 2009
From: mikec at pcug.org.au (Mike Cassidy)
Date: Sat, 17 Jan 2009 12:08:23 +1100
Subject: TSGL: Desktop icon needed
In-Reply-To: <6.1.0.6.2.20090116084942.026a8788@POP3.gorge.net>
Message-ID: <LPBBIMBEGNOAFIECDFFHOECIEIAA.mikec@pcug.org.au>

Hi Sylvia,

Don has given you the quick, positive way show the desktop (key strokes are
always better than mousing about) and Ian has told you how to create the
.scf file Windows uses for this.

However, your .scf file may still be present and you have just deleted the
shortcut icon to it.

The MS Knowledge Base gives this way to do what you want:
	"If the Show Desktop icon is missing, and the Show Desktop.scf file is
	present in the Windows\System, or WINNT\System32 folder, you can add it
	to the Quick Launch Bar by performing the following steps:

	"Click Start/ Find /Files or Folders, or
	 Start/ Search /For Files or Folders and search for *.scf.

	"Drag the Show Desktop file from the c:\windows\system folder to the
	quick launch bar to create a shortcut for it there.

	"NOTE: If the Show Desktop icon is missing from the Quick Launch Bar, you
	can recreate it by following this article:

	"190355  (http://support.microsoft.com/kb/190355/EN-US/ ) How to Re-create
	the Show Desktop Icon on Quick Launch Toolbar"

Hope this helps.
Regards,
MikeC

----------------------------------------------------------------------------
----

-----Original Message-----
From: list-bounces at tsgserver.com [mailto:list-bounces at tsgserver.com]On
Behalf Of Sylvia Gould
Sent: Saturday, 17 January 2009 3:51 AM
To: List at tsgserver.com
Subject: TSGL: Desktop icon needed


I don't remember how to create an icon that will restore the desktop when
other applications are open.  Can't seem to stumble onto the process.
Thanks.
Sylvia Gould


_______________________________________________
Tech Support Guy Mailing List
http://www.tsgserver.com/list/



From nade at gorge.net  Fri Jan 16 20:22:53 2009
From: nade at gorge.net (Sylvia Gould)
Date: Fri, 16 Jan 2009 17:22:53 -0800
Subject: TSGL: Desktop icon needed
In-Reply-To: <LPBBIMBEGNOAFIECDFFHOECIEIAA.mikec@pcug.org.au>
References: <6.1.0.6.2.20090116084942.026a8788@POP3.gorge.net>
	<LPBBIMBEGNOAFIECDFFHOECIEIAA.mikec@pcug.org.au>
Message-ID: <6.1.0.6.2.20090116172221.0268b418@POP3.gorge.net>

Thanks to everyone for advice and examples. I've got it where it belongs 
now, and it's working fine. great to have help in the background!!

At 05:08 PM 1/16/2009, you wrote:
>Hi Sylvia,
>
>Don has given you the quick, positive way show the desktop (key strokes are
>always better than mousing about) and Ian has told you how to create the
>.scf file Windows uses for this.
>
>However, your .scf file may still be present and you have just deleted the
>shortcut icon to it.
>
>The MS Knowledge Base gives this way to do what you want:
>         "If the Show Desktop icon is missing, and the Show Desktop.scf 
> file is
>         present in the Windows\System, or WINNT\System32 folder, you can 
> add it
>         to the Quick Launch Bar by performing the following steps:
>
>         "Click Start/ Find /Files or Folders, or
>         Start/ Search /For Files or Folders and search for *.scf.
>
>         "Drag the Show Desktop file from the c:\windows\system folder to the
>         quick launch bar to create a shortcut for it there.
>
>         "NOTE: If the Show Desktop icon is missing from the Quick Launch 
> Bar, you
>         can recreate it by following this article:
>
>         "190355  (http://support.microsoft.com/kb/190355/EN-US/ ) How to 
> Re-create
>         the Show Desktop Icon on Quick Launch Toolbar"
>
>Hope this helps.
>Regards,
>MikeC
>
>----------------------------------------------------------------------------
>----
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: list-bounces at tsgserver.com [mailto:list-bounces at tsgserver.com]On
>Behalf Of Sylvia Gould
>Sent: Saturday, 17 January 2009 3:51 AM
>To: List at tsgserver.com
>Subject: TSGL: Desktop icon needed
>
>
>I don't remember how to create an icon that will restore the desktop when
>other applications are open.  Can't seem to stumble onto the process.
>Thanks.
>Sylvia Gould
>
>
>_______________________________________________
>Tech Support Guy Mailing List
>http://www.tsgserver.com/list/
>
>
>_______________________________________________
>Tech Support Guy Mailing List
>http://www.tsgserver.com/list/
>No virus found in this incoming message.
>Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com
>Version: 8.0.176 / Virus Database: 270.10.8/1898 - Release Date: 1/16/2009 
>3:09 PM




From Engineman1 at aol.com  Fri Jan 16 20:45:24 2009
From: Engineman1 at aol.com (Engineman1 at aol.com)
Date: Fri, 16 Jan 2009 20:45:24 EST
Subject: TSGL: Desktop icon needed
Message-ID: <cbb.31e5b660.36a29234@aol.com>

 
In a message dated 1/16/2009 3:47:07 P.M. Pacific Standard Time,  
deepend at tpg.com.au writes:

Sylvia  wrote:
>restore the desktop when other applications are  open>>


Windows key + m does it easier.

Don  Penlington



Also Windows key + D.
Can anyone tell m
**************A Good Credit Score is 700 or Above. See yours in just 2 easy 
steps! 
(http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100000075x1215855013x1201028747/aol?redir=http://www.freecreditreport.com/pm/default.aspx?sc=668072%26hmpgID=62%26bcd=De
cemailfooterNO62)

From hdavis1 at gmail.com  Fri Jan 16 21:39:27 2009
From: hdavis1 at gmail.com (H Davis)
Date: Fri, 16 Jan 2009 21:39:27 -0500
Subject: TSGL: Outlook rule question
In-Reply-To: <62B86C1344B343EF832553EF4C511A83@KathrynVista>
References: <92A2498E21D04138BCEC3723B0E09EA9@KathrynVista>	<adc2940c0901151703h486156e4tcb746304ad91762e@mail.gmail.com>
	<62B86C1344B343EF832553EF4C511A83@KathrynVista>
Message-ID: <497144DF.5070206@gmail.com>

Kathryn,

I don't use Outlook but is there an option to filter on the "from" or 
"sender"? If so, try using just the "yourmeterreader.com" part to filter 
on. Your example suggests that this part is always the same.

Or, can you go back to the server side spam blocker and tell it that 
these are spam; either before or after you've read them by Outlook. If 
so, it might eventually learn that they are spam. An image only e-mail 
should get a pretty high spam score. I'm surprised that the server 
anti-spam program won't catch it.

H Davis

Kathryn Bassett wrote:
> Neither would work. The subject line is never the same and there is no text
> at all in the body, just an "image" of text. In fact, when I tried to
> "select" some text to copy, that is when I found out that it was a linked
> image.
>
>   
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: list-bounces at tsgserver.com 
>> [mailto:list-bounces at tsgserver.com] On Behalf Of Ian Ramsey-Planck
>> Sent: 15 Jan 2009 5:03 PM
>> To: Tech Support Guy Mailing List
>> Subject: Re: TSGL: Outlook rule question
>>
>> When i go to create a new rule, it gives me the option to 
>> select 'Where the subject line contains specific words' or 
>> 'Where the message body contains specific words' wouldn't that work?
>>
>> On Thu, Jan 15, 2009 at 7:56 PM, Kathryn Bassett 
>> <kathryn at bassett.net>wrote:
>>
>>     
>>> I have Outlook2003 and have a rule I want to set up and 
>>>       
>> can't figure 
>>     
>>> out how to do it. I have a real good spam blocker on the 
>>>       
>> server side 
>>     
>>> of my email (email service by everyone.net), but there is one email 
>>> that does not get caught. The entire email is an image (linked) and 
>>> starts out Your Debts Could Make You Rich. Here's a sample 
>>>       
>> of who it's 
>>     
>>> from:
>>>
>>> john.cmfdcll at yourmeterreader.com; on behalf of; J. Cummuta 
>>> [Secret11nji at yourmeterreader.com]
>>>
>>> It would be a simple rule execpt for one thing. The ONLY 
>>>       
>> commonality 
>>     
>>> that these emails (that come 2-3 times a day) share is the 
>>>       
>> "on behalf of J.
>>     
>>> Cummuta". I can't figure out how to make a rule on the 
>>>       
>> "name" in the 
>>     
>>> on behalf of portion. If there was a way to filter on 
>>>       
>> Cummuta, I could 
>>     
>>> send these suckers straight to the trash.
>>>
>>> Can anyone help?
>>>
>>> --
>>> Kathryn Rhinehart Bassett (Pasadena CA) "Genealogy is my 
>>>       
>> bag" "GH is 
>>     
>>> my soap"
>>> kathryn at bassett.net
>>> http://bassett.net
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Tech Support Guy Mailing List
>>> http://www.tsgserver.com/list/
>>>
>>>       
>>
>> --
>> Thanks
>> Ian R-P
>> Patience is a virtue.
>> _______________________________________________
>> Tech Support Guy Mailing List
>> http://www.tsgserver.com/list/
>>     
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Tech Support Guy Mailing List
> http://www.tsgserver.com/list/
>
>   

-- 
H Davis   hdavis1 at gmail.com


From Engineman1 at aol.com  Fri Jan 16 21:45:00 2009
From: Engineman1 at aol.com (Engineman1 at aol.com)
Date: Fri, 16 Jan 2009 21:45:00 EST
Subject: TSGL: Desktop icon needed
Message-ID: <c6f.30bd6ff3.36a2a02c@aol.com>

Excuse the last message, I meant to say:Windows key + D does it too, is  
there any difference?
Engineman
 
 


.

<Don  Penlington
Windows key + m does it  easier.

**************A Good Credit Score is 700 or Above. See yours in  just 2 easy 

**************A Good Credit Score is 700 or Above. See yours in just 2 easy 
steps! 
(http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100000075x1215855013x1201028747/aol?redir=http://www.freecreditreport.com/pm/default.aspx?sc=668072%26hmpgID=62%26bcd=De
cemailfooterNO62)

From hdavis1 at gmail.com  Fri Jan 16 21:52:47 2009
From: hdavis1 at gmail.com (H Davis)
Date: Fri, 16 Jan 2009 21:52:47 -0500
Subject: TSGL: Desktop icon needed
In-Reply-To: <6.1.0.6.2.20090116172221.0268b418@POP3.gorge.net>
References: <6.1.0.6.2.20090116084942.026a8788@POP3.gorge.net>	<LPBBIMBEGNOAFIECDFFHOECIEIAA.mikec@pcug.org.au>
	<6.1.0.6.2.20090116172221.0268b418@POP3.gorge.net>
Message-ID: <497147FF.6060502@gmail.com>

Ya, but nobody will fess up to the 8000 Google searches we did to find 
the answer. If I could type faster I woulda been first; I coulda been a 
contenda too.

H Davis

Sylvia Gould wrote:
> Thanks to everyone for advice and examples. I've got it where it 
> belongs now, and it's working fine. great to have help in the 
> background!!
>
> At 05:08 PM 1/16/2009, you wrote:
>> Hi Sylvia,
>>
>> Don has given you the quick, positive way show the desktop (key 
>> strokes are
>> always better than mousing about) and Ian has told you how to create the
>> .scf file Windows uses for this.
>>
>> However, your .scf file may still be present and you have just 
>> deleted the
>> shortcut icon to it.
>>
>> The MS Knowledge Base gives this way to do what you want:
>>         "If the Show Desktop icon is missing, and the Show 
>> Desktop.scf file is
>>         present in the Windows\System, or WINNT\System32 folder, you 
>> can add it
>>         to the Quick Launch Bar by performing the following steps:
>>
>>         "Click Start/ Find /Files or Folders, or
>>         Start/ Search /For Files or Folders and search for *.scf.
>>
>>         "Drag the Show Desktop file from the c:\windows\system folder 
>> to the
>>         quick launch bar to create a shortcut for it there.
>>
>>         "NOTE: If the Show Desktop icon is missing from the Quick 
>> Launch Bar, you
>>         can recreate it by following this article:
>>
>>         "190355  (http://support.microsoft.com/kb/190355/EN-US/ ) How 
>> to Re-create
>>         the Show Desktop Icon on Quick Launch Toolbar"
>>
>> Hope this helps.
>> Regards,
>> MikeC
>>
>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 
>>
>> ----
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: list-bounces at tsgserver.com [mailto:list-bounces at tsgserver.com]On
>> Behalf Of Sylvia Gould
>> Sent: Saturday, 17 January 2009 3:51 AM
>> To: List at tsgserver.com
>> Subject: TSGL: Desktop icon needed
>>
>>
>> I don't remember how to create an icon that will restore the desktop 
>> when
>> other applications are open.  Can't seem to stumble onto the process.
>> Thanks.
>> Sylvia Gould
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Tech Support Guy Mailing List
>> http://www.tsgserver.com/list/
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Tech Support Guy Mailing List
>> http://www.tsgserver.com/list/
>> No virus found in this incoming message.
>> Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com
>> Version: 8.0.176 / Virus Database: 270.10.8/1898 - Release Date: 
>> 1/16/2009 3:09 PM
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Tech Support Guy Mailing List
> http://www.tsgserver.com/list/
>

-- 
H Davis   hdavis1 at gmail.com



From nade at gorge.net  Fri Jan 16 22:48:31 2009
From: nade at gorge.net (Sylvia Gould)
Date: Fri, 16 Jan 2009 19:48:31 -0800
Subject: TSGL: Answer found---Desktop icon needed
In-Reply-To: <497147FF.6060502@gmail.com>
References: <6.1.0.6.2.20090116084942.026a8788@POP3.gorge.net>
	<LPBBIMBEGNOAFIECDFFHOECIEIAA.mikec@pcug.org.au>
	<6.1.0.6.2.20090116172221.0268b418@POP3.gorge.net>
	<497147FF.6060502@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <6.1.0.6.2.20090116194516.0269e700@POP3.gorge.net>

Well, I did Google searches first, before I asked. All I could come up with 
was how to put another kind of icon on the desktop--I already knew 
that.  Incidentally, another way I was given locally was:  right click on 
the taskbar to the right of Start, choose toolbar, and then check Quick 
Launch. Several icons are there waiting, but have to be "invited" apparently.

At 06:52 PM 1/16/2009, you wrote:
>Ya, but nobody will fess up to the 8000 Google searches we did to find the 
>answer. If I could type faster I woulda been first; I coulda been a 
>contenda too.
>
>H Davis
>
>Sylvia Gould wrote:
>>Thanks to everyone for advice and examples. I've got it where it belongs 
>>now, and it's working fine. great to have help in the background!!
>>
>>At 05:08 PM 1/16/2009, you wrote:
>>>Hi Sylvia,
>>>
>>>Don has given you the quick, positive way show the desktop (key strokes are
>>>always better than mousing about) and Ian has told you how to create the
>>>.scf file Windows uses for this.
>>>
>>>However, your .scf file may still be present and you have just deleted the
>>>shortcut icon to it.
>>>
>>>The MS Knowledge Base gives this way to do what you want:
>>>         "If the Show Desktop icon is missing, and the Show Desktop.scf 
>>> file is
>>>         present in the Windows\System, or WINNT\System32 folder, you 
>>> can add it
>>>         to the Quick Launch Bar by performing the following steps:
>>>
>>>         "Click Start/ Find /Files or Folders, or
>>>         Start/ Search /For Files or Folders and search for *.scf.
>>>
>>>         "Drag the Show Desktop file from the c:\windows\system folder 
>>> to the
>>>         quick launch bar to create a shortcut for it there.
>>>
>>>         "NOTE: If the Show Desktop icon is missing from the Quick 
>>> Launch Bar, you
>>>         can recreate it by following this article:
>>>
>>>         "190355  (http://support.microsoft.com/kb/190355/EN-US/ ) How 
>>> to Re-create
>>>         the Show Desktop Icon on Quick Launch Toolbar"
>>>
>>>Hope this helps.
>>>Regards,
>>>MikeC
>>>
>>>---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 
>>>
>>>----
>>>
>>>-----Original Message-----
>>>From: list-bounces at tsgserver.com [mailto:list-bounces at tsgserver.com]On
>>>Behalf Of Sylvia Gould
>>>Sent: Saturday, 17 January 2009 3:51 AM
>>>To: List at tsgserver.com
>>>Subject: TSGL: Desktop icon needed
>>>
>>>
>>>I don't remember how to create an icon that will restore the desktop when
>>>other applications are open.  Can't seem to stumble onto the process.
>>>Thanks.
>>>Sylvia Gould
>>>
>>>
>>>_______________________________________________
>>>Tech Support Guy Mailing List
>>>http://www.tsgserver.com/list/
>>>
>>>
>>>_______________________________________________
>>>Tech Support Guy Mailing List
>>>http://www.tsgserver.com/list/
>>>No virus found in this incoming message.
>>>Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com
>>>Version: 8.0.176 / Virus Database: 270.10.8/1898 - Release Date: 
>>>1/16/2009 3:09 PM
>>
>>
>>
>>_______________________________________________
>>Tech Support Guy Mailing List
>>http://www.tsgserver.com/list/
>
>--
>H Davis   hdavis1 at gmail.com
>
>
>_______________________________________________
>Tech Support Guy Mailing List
>http://www.tsgserver.com/list/
>
>
>No virus found in this incoming message.
>Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com
>Version: 8.0.176 / Virus Database: 270.10.8/1898 - Release Date: 1/16/2009 
>3:09 PM




From embitt at westnet.com.au  Fri Jan 16 23:57:38 2009
From: embitt at westnet.com.au (Eric and Merna Bitter)
Date: Sat, 17 Jan 2009 14:57:38 +1000
Subject: TSGL: search engines (was Re:  Desktop icon needed)
References: <6.1.0.6.2.20090116084942.026a8788@POP3.gorge.net>	<LPBBIMBEGNOAFIECDFFHOECIEIAA.mikec@pcug.org.au><6.1.0.6.2.20090116172221.0268b418@POP3.gorge.net>
	<497147FF.6060502@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <020e01c97860$39823d40$0401a8c0@number12>


----- Original Message -----
From: "H Davis" <hdavis1 at gmail.com>
To: "Tech Support Guy Mailing List" <list at tsgserver.com>
Sent: Saturday, January 17, 2009 12:52 PM
Subject: Re: TSGL: Desktop icon needed


Ya, but nobody will fess up to the 8000 Google searches we did to find
the answer. If I could type faster I woulda been first; I coulda been a
contenda too.

H Davis



Good one, H., and SO true.

Is there anyone on this List who does NOT use Google?  (If there is, please
speak up -- I'm sure I'm not the only one who is curious about this.)

I can remember using search engines like AlltheWeb, AltaVista, Ask Jeeves,
and Dogpile in the good old days (pre-Google, or pre-Google dominance -- and
these days the "good old days" are not very old).   I think MSN was
"inbuilt" (part of IE).   And of course there was Yahoo.

Although I have them (or their successors, e.g. Ask.com instead of Ask
Jeeves - and now including Teoma) in a favorites sub-folder, and although I
often think I should try to find things with other engines, invariably I use
Google.

In seven favorites' sub-folders (se, se by proxy, se images - visual, se
metasearch, se people, se recommendation, se shopping) I have about two
hundred links to search engines or related items/articles.  Some are
probably no longer functioning.  Here are a few of the non-Google links.

http://aumha.org/search.htm
http://www.brainly.com/   (same as http://www.gonzu.com)
http://www.driversearch.com
http://www.uta.fi/FAST/search.html
http://kinderstart.com/
http://lii.org/
http://www.scrubtheweb.com/
http://www.searchenginecolossus.com/
http://searchenginewatch.com/2159211   (article)
http://www.skreemr.com/
http://www.songza.com/
http://turbo10.com/
http://www.webwombat.com.au/

http://www.iboogie.tv/
http://www.incrawler.com/
http://www.nieuwsbronnen.com/newssearchportal/

And, to return to Google, there are the "Topic-specific search engines" like
Google Scholar -- see ten links at bottom of this page:
http://www.google.com/advanced_search

Can any other List members recommend non-Google engines which you
particularly like and/or find useful?

Merna






From kathryn at bassett.net  Sat Jan 17 00:52:37 2009
From: kathryn at bassett.net (Kathryn Bassett)
Date: Fri, 16 Jan 2009 21:52:37 -0800
Subject: TSGL: Outlook rule question
In-Reply-To: <497144DF.5070206@gmail.com>
References: <92A2498E21D04138BCEC3723B0E09EA9@KathrynVista>	<adc2940c0901151703h486156e4tcb746304ad91762e@mail.gmail.com><62B86C1344B343EF832553EF4C511A83@KathrynVista>
	<497144DF.5070206@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <28F4CAFE21AD4FB4BEE56ECC4D8011EE@KathrynVista>

Nope, that's not the case. You missed the part that said The ONLY
commonality that these emails share is the "on behalf of J. Cummuta". The
"on the bahalf" part is not part of the sender, it is the name alias. Same
problem on the server side. Thanks for trying.
Kathryn

> -----Original Message-----
> From: list-bounces at tsgserver.com 
> [mailto:list-bounces at tsgserver.com] On Behalf Of H Davis
> Sent: 16 Jan 2009 6:39 PM
> To: Tech Support Guy Mailing List
> Subject: Re: TSGL: Outlook rule question
> 
> Kathryn,
> 
> I don't use Outlook but is there an option to filter on the 
> "from" or "sender"? If so, try using just the 
> "yourmeterreader.com" part to filter on. Your example 
> suggests that this part is always the same.
> 
> Or, can you go back to the server side spam blocker and tell 
> it that these are spam; either before or after you've read 
> them by Outlook. If so, it might eventually learn that they 
> are spam. An image only e-mail should get a pretty high spam 
> score. I'm surprised that the server anti-spam program won't catch it.
> 
> H Davis
> 
> Kathryn Bassett wrote:
> > Neither would work. The subject line is never the same and 
> there is no 
> > text at all in the body, just an "image" of text. In fact, when I 
> > tried to "select" some text to copy, that is when I found 
> out that it 
> > was a linked image.
> >
> >   
> >> -----Original Message-----
> >> From: list-bounces at tsgserver.com
> >> [mailto:list-bounces at tsgserver.com] On Behalf Of Ian Ramsey-Planck
> >> Sent: 15 Jan 2009 5:03 PM
> >> To: Tech Support Guy Mailing List
> >> Subject: Re: TSGL: Outlook rule question
> >>
> >> When i go to create a new rule, it gives me the option to select 
> >> 'Where the subject line contains specific words' or 'Where the 
> >> message body contains specific words' wouldn't that work?
> >>
> >> On Thu, Jan 15, 2009 at 7:56 PM, Kathryn Bassett
> >> <kathryn at bassett.net>wrote:
> >>
> >>     
> >>> I have Outlook2003 and have a rule I want to set up and
> >>>       
> >> can't figure
> >>     
> >>> out how to do it. I have a real good spam blocker on the
> >>>       
> >> server side
> >>     
> >>> of my email (email service by everyone.net), but there is 
> one email 
> >>> that does not get caught. The entire email is an image 
> (linked) and 
> >>> starts out Your Debts Could Make You Rich. Here's a sample
> >>>       
> >> of who it's
> >>     
> >>> from:
> >>>
> >>> john.cmfdcll at yourmeterreader.com; on behalf of; J. Cummuta 
> >>> [Secret11nji at yourmeterreader.com]
> >>>
> >>> It would be a simple rule execpt for one thing. The ONLY
> >>>       
> >> commonality
> >>     
> >>> that these emails (that come 2-3 times a day) share is the
> >>>       
> >> "on behalf of J.
> >>     
> >>> Cummuta". I can't figure out how to make a rule on the
> >>>       
> >> "name" in the
> >>     
> >>> on behalf of portion. If there was a way to filter on
> >>>       
> >> Cummuta, I could
> >>     
> >>> send these suckers straight to the trash.
> >>>
> >>> Can anyone help?
> >>>
> >>> --
> >>> Kathryn Rhinehart Bassett (Pasadena CA) "Genealogy is my
> >>>       
> >> bag" "GH is
> >>     
> >>> my soap"
> >>> kathryn at bassett.net
> >>> http://bassett.net
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> _______________________________________________
> >>> Tech Support Guy Mailing List
> >>> http://www.tsgserver.com/list/
> >>>
> >>>       
> >>
> >> --
> >> Thanks
> >> Ian R-P
> >> Patience is a virtue.
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> Tech Support Guy Mailing List
> >> http://www.tsgserver.com/list/
> >>     
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Tech Support Guy Mailing List
> > http://www.tsgserver.com/list/
> >
> >   
> 
> -- 
> H Davis   hdavis1 at gmail.com
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Tech Support Guy Mailing List
> http://www.tsgserver.com/list/



From jonpan at onlinehome.de  Sat Jan 17 03:53:41 2009
From: jonpan at onlinehome.de (Jon)
Date: Sat, 17 Jan 2009 09:53:41 +0100
Subject: TSGL: search engines (was Re:  Desktop icon needed)
References: <6.1.0.6.2.20090116084942.026a8788@POP3.gorge.net>	<LPBBIMBEGNOAFIECDFFHOECIEIAA.mikec@pcug.org.au><6.1.0.6.2.20090116172221.0268b418@POP3.gorge.net><497147FF.6060502@gmail.com>
	<020e01c97860$39823d40$0401a8c0@number12>
Message-ID: <D5038CCF92004690BDE12D708ACB4910@johnsp2>

I use (almost) exclusively ask.com. I don't like entities that get so big they feel able to take over my PC or life. (Has anybody tried lately to install Google Earth on D:, for example?) 
It's like Big Government: "We know what's best for you and we'll make damn sure you can't do anything else". 

BTW., I have the impression that the results from all the search engines get worse by the day. The first list shows you exactly what you want, but clicking the link takes you to a place that shows no sign of the initial question or answer. Too many results take one to commercial sites, too many to dead links.

I'd better shut up and get off my high horse - but it would be interesting to hear others' opinions...

John
Od/G

To add to Merna's list: 
www.searchability.com
www.cuil.com
www.AllTheWeb.com


----- Original Message ----- 
From: Eric and Merna Bitter 
To: Tech Support Guy Mailing List 
Sent: Saturday, January 17, 2009 5:57 AM
Subject: TSGL: search engines (was Re: Desktop icon needed)



----- Original Message -----
From: "H Davis" <hdavis1 at gmail.com>
To: "Tech Support Guy Mailing List" <list at tsgserver.com>
Sent: Saturday, January 17, 2009 12:52 PM
Subject: Re: TSGL: Desktop icon needed


Ya, but nobody will fess up to the 8000 Google searches we did to find
the answer. If I could type faster I woulda been first; I coulda been a
contenda too.

H Davis



Good one, H., and SO true.

Is there anyone on this List who does NOT use Google?  (If there is, please
speak up -- I'm sure I'm not the only one who is curious about this.)

I can remember using search engines like AlltheWeb, AltaVista, Ask Jeeves,
and Dogpile in the good old days (pre-Google, or pre-Google dominance -- and
these days the "good old days" are not very old).   I think MSN was
"inbuilt" (part of IE).   And of course there was Yahoo.

Although I have them (or their successors, e.g. Ask.com instead of Ask
Jeeves - and now including Teoma) in a favorites sub-folder, and although I
often think I should try to find things with other engines, invariably I use
Google.

In seven favorites' sub-folders (se, se by proxy, se images - visual, se
metasearch, se people, se recommendation, se shopping) I have about two
hundred links to search engines or related items/articles.  Some are
probably no longer functioning.  Here are a few of the non-Google links.

http://aumha.org/search.htm
http://www.brainly.com/   (same as http://www.gonzu.com)
http://www.driversearch.com
http://www.uta.fi/FAST/search.html
http://kinderstart.com/
http://lii.org/
http://www.scrubtheweb.com/
http://www.searchenginecolossus.com/
http://searchenginewatch.com/2159211   (article)
http://www.skreemr.com/
http://www.songza.com/
http://turbo10.com/
http://www.webwombat.com.au/

http://www.iboogie.tv/
http://www.incrawler.com/
http://www.nieuwsbronnen.com/newssearchportal/

And, to return to Google, there are the "Topic-specific search engines" like
Google Scholar -- see ten links at bottom of this page:
http://www.google.com/advanced_search

Can any other List members recommend non-Google engines which you
particularly like and/or find useful?

Merna





_______________________________________________
Tech Support Guy Mailing List
http://www.tsgserver.com/list/

From jonpan at onlinehome.de  Sat Jan 17 03:56:16 2009
From: jonpan at onlinehome.de (Jon)
Date: Sat, 17 Jan 2009 09:56:16 +0100
Subject: TSGL: Outlook rule question
References: <92A2498E21D04138BCEC3723B0E09EA9@KathrynVista>	<adc2940c0901151703h486156e4tcb746304ad91762e@mail.gmail.com><62B86C1344B343EF832553EF4C511A83@KathrynVista><497144DF.5070206@gmail.com>
	<28F4CAFE21AD4FB4BEE56ECC4D8011EE@KathrynVista>
Message-ID: <8FE99C9061AC4BA1897C7D9BFA94DDAF@johnsp2>

Have you tried looking at 'Forward' or 'Reply' or even printing it out. You may get an address from there that you could enter into your filter list or use 'block sender'.

John
Od/G

----- Original Message ----- 
From: Kathryn Bassett 
To: 'Tech Support Guy Mailing List' 
Sent: Saturday, January 17, 2009 6:52 AM
Subject: Re: TSGL: Outlook rule question


Nope, that's not the case. You missed the part that said The ONLY
commonality that these emails share is the "on behalf of J. Cummuta". The
"on the bahalf" part is not part of the sender, it is the name alias. Same
problem on the server side. Thanks for trying.
Kathryn

> -----Original Message-----
> From: list-bounces at tsgserver.com 
> [mailto:list-bounces at tsgserver.com] On Behalf Of H Davis
> Sent: 16 Jan 2009 6:39 PM
> To: Tech Support Guy Mailing List
> Subject: Re: TSGL: Outlook rule question
> 
> Kathryn,
> 
> I don't use Outlook but is there an option to filter on the 
> "from" or "sender"? If so, try using just the 
> "yourmeterreader.com" part to filter on. Your example 
> suggests that this part is always the same.
> 
> Or, can you go back to the server side spam blocker and tell 
> it that these are spam; either before or after you've read 
> them by Outlook. If so, it might eventually learn that they 
> are spam. An image only e-mail should get a pretty high spam 
> score. I'm surprised that the server anti-spam program won't catch it.
> 
> H Davis
> 
> Kathryn Bassett wrote:
> > Neither would work. The subject line is never the same and 
> there is no 
> > text at all in the body, just an "image" of text. In fact, when I 
> > tried to "select" some text to copy, that is when I found 
> out that it 
> > was a linked image.
> >
> >   
> >> -----Original Message-----
> >> From: list-bounces at tsgserver.com
> >> [mailto:list-bounces at tsgserver.com] On Behalf Of Ian Ramsey-Planck
> >> Sent: 15 Jan 2009 5:03 PM
> >> To: Tech Support Guy Mailing List
> >> Subject: Re: TSGL: Outlook rule question
> >>
> >> When i go to create a new rule, it gives me the option to select 
> >> 'Where the subject line contains specific words' or 'Where the 
> >> message body contains specific words' wouldn't that work?
> >>
> >> On Thu, Jan 15, 2009 at 7:56 PM, Kathryn Bassett
> >> <kathryn at bassett.net>wrote:
> >>
> >>     
> >>> I have Outlook2003 and have a rule I want to set up and
> >>>       
> >> can't figure
> >>     
> >>> out how to do it. I have a real good spam blocker on the
> >>>       
> >> server side
> >>     
> >>> of my email (email service by everyone.net), but there is 
> one email 
> >>> that does not get caught. The entire email is an image 
> (linked) and 
> >>> starts out Your Debts Could Make You Rich. Here's a sample
> >>>       
> >> of who it's
> >>     
> >>> from:
> >>>
> >>> john.cmfdcll at yourmeterreader.com; on behalf of; J. Cummuta 
> >>> [Secret11nji at yourmeterreader.com]
> >>>
> >>> It would be a simple rule execpt for one thing. The ONLY
> >>>       
> >> commonality
> >>     
> >>> that these emails (that come 2-3 times a day) share is the
> >>>       
> >> "on behalf of J.
> >>     
> >>> Cummuta". I can't figure out how to make a rule on the
> >>>       
> >> "name" in the
> >>     
> >>> on behalf of portion. If there was a way to filter on
> >>>       
> >> Cummuta, I could
> >>     
> >>> send these suckers straight to the trash.
> >>>
> >>> Can anyone help?
> >>>
> >>> --
> >>> Kathryn Rhinehart Bassett (Pasadena CA) "Genealogy is my
> >>>       
> >> bag" "GH is
> >>     
> >>> my soap"
> >>> kathryn at bassett.net
> >>> http://bassett.net
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> _______________________________________________
> >>> Tech Support Guy Mailing List
> >>> http://www.tsgserver.com/list/
> >>>
> >>>       
> >>
> >> --
> >> Thanks
> >> Ian R-P
> >> Patience is a virtue.
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> Tech Support Guy Mailing List
> >> http://www.tsgserver.com/list/
> >>     
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Tech Support Guy Mailing List
> > http://www.tsgserver.com/list/
> >
> >   
> 
> -- 
> H Davis   hdavis1 at gmail.com
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Tech Support Guy Mailing List
> http://www.tsgserver.com/list/


_______________________________________________
Tech Support Guy Mailing List
http://www.tsgserver.com/list/

From ian at iarp.ca  Sat Jan 17 04:06:33 2009
From: ian at iarp.ca (Ian Ramsey-Planck)
Date: Sat, 17 Jan 2009 04:06:33 -0500
Subject: TSGL: search engines (was Re: Desktop icon needed)
In-Reply-To: <D5038CCF92004690BDE12D708ACB4910@johnsp2>
References: <6.1.0.6.2.20090116084942.026a8788@POP3.gorge.net>
	<LPBBIMBEGNOAFIECDFFHOECIEIAA.mikec@pcug.org.au>
	<6.1.0.6.2.20090116172221.0268b418@POP3.gorge.net>
	<497147FF.6060502@gmail.com> <020e01c97860$39823d40$0401a8c0@number12>
	<D5038CCF92004690BDE12D708ACB4910@johnsp2>
Message-ID: <adc2940c0901170106u4c603629j5bb78abbb8d1ea0d@mail.gmail.com>

There was a video on Fora TV i watched a couple weeks back that i'm unable
to find. It talked about how much Google search results have changed since
starting.
Before everything was almost always 100% relevant, and then they came out
with google ads and now the first 3 results are always ads that may claim to
be what your looking for, but lead to nothing even close.

On Sat, Jan 17, 2009 at 3:53 AM, Jon <jonpan at onlinehome.de> wrote:

> I use (almost) exclusively ask.com. I don't like entities that get so big
> they feel able to take over my PC or life. (Has anybody tried lately to
> install Google Earth on D:, for example?)
> It's like Big Government: "We know what's best for you and we'll make damn
> sure you can't do anything else".
>
> BTW., I have the impression that the results from all the search engines
> get worse by the day. The first list shows you exactly what you want, but
> clicking the link takes you to a place that shows no sign of the initial
> question or answer. Too many results take one to commercial sites, too many
> to dead links.
>
> I'd better shut up and get off my high horse - but it would be interesting
> to hear others' opinions...
>
> John
> Od/G
>
> To add to Merna's list:
> www.searchability.com
> www.cuil.com
> www.AllTheWeb.com
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Eric and Merna Bitter
> To: Tech Support Guy Mailing List
> Sent: Saturday, January 17, 2009 5:57 AM
> Subject: TSGL: search engines (was Re: Desktop icon needed)
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "H Davis" <hdavis1 at gmail.com>
> To: "Tech Support Guy Mailing List" <list at tsgserver.com>
> Sent: Saturday, January 17, 2009 12:52 PM
> Subject: Re: TSGL: Desktop icon needed
>
>
> Ya, but nobody will fess up to the 8000 Google searches we did to find
> the answer. If I could type faster I woulda been first; I coulda been a
> contenda too.
>
> H Davis
>
>
>
> Good one, H., and SO true.
>
> Is there anyone on this List who does NOT use Google?  (If there is, please
> speak up -- I'm sure I'm not the only one who is curious about this.)
>
> I can remember using search engines like AlltheWeb, AltaVista, Ask Jeeves,
> and Dogpile in the good old days (pre-Google, or pre-Google dominance --
> and
> these days the "good old days" are not very old).   I think MSN was
> "inbuilt" (part of IE).   And of course there was Yahoo.
>
> Although I have them (or their successors, e.g. Ask.com instead of Ask
> Jeeves - and now including Teoma) in a favorites sub-folder, and although I
> often think I should try to find things with other engines, invariably I
> use
> Google.
>
> In seven favorites' sub-folders (se, se by proxy, se images - visual, se
> metasearch, se people, se recommendation, se shopping) I have about two
> hundred links to search engines or related items/articles.  Some are
> probably no longer functioning.  Here are a few of the non-Google links.
>
> http://aumha.org/search.htm
> http://www.brainly.com/   (same as http://www.gonzu.com)
> http://www.driversearch.com
> http://www.uta.fi/FAST/search.html
> http://kinderstart.com/
> http://lii.org/
> http://www.scrubtheweb.com/
> http://www.searchenginecolossus.com/
> http://searchenginewatch.com/2159211   (article)
> http://www.skreemr.com/
> http://www.songza.com/
> http://turbo10.com/
> http://www.webwombat.com.au/
>
> http://www.iboogie.tv/
> http://www.incrawler.com/
> http://www.nieuwsbronnen.com/newssearchportal/
>
> And, to return to Google, there are the "Topic-specific search engines"
> like
> Google Scholar -- see ten links at bottom of this page:
> http://www.google.com/advanced_search
>
> Can any other List members recommend non-Google engines which you
> particularly like and/or find useful?
>
> Merna
>
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Tech Support Guy Mailing List
> http://www.tsgserver.com/list/
> _______________________________________________
> Tech Support Guy Mailing List
> http://www.tsgserver.com/list/
>



-- 
Thanks
Ian R-P
Patience is a virtue.

From ian at iarp.ca  Sat Jan 17 04:09:01 2009
From: ian at iarp.ca (Ian Ramsey-Planck)
Date: Sat, 17 Jan 2009 04:09:01 -0500
Subject: TSGL: search engines (was Re: Desktop icon needed)
In-Reply-To: <adc2940c0901170106u4c603629j5bb78abbb8d1ea0d@mail.gmail.com>
References: <6.1.0.6.2.20090116084942.026a8788@POP3.gorge.net>
	<LPBBIMBEGNOAFIECDFFHOECIEIAA.mikec@pcug.org.au>
	<6.1.0.6.2.20090116172221.0268b418@POP3.gorge.net>
	<497147FF.6060502@gmail.com> <020e01c97860$39823d40$0401a8c0@number12>
	<D5038CCF92004690BDE12D708ACB4910@johnsp2>
	<adc2940c0901170106u4c603629j5bb78abbb8d1ea0d@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <adc2940c0901170109necdf8d7rc2e78066a4b9b542@mail.gmail.com>

And of course, within minutes of sending that email i find the video.
http://fora.tv/2008/09/11/Jimmy_Wales_on_Democratizing_Search_Engines

On Sat, Jan 17, 2009 at 4:06 AM, Ian Ramsey-Planck <ian at iarp.ca> wrote:

> There was a video on Fora TV i watched a couple weeks back that i'm unable
> to find. It talked about how much Google search results have changed since
> starting.
> Before everything was almost always 100% relevant, and then they came out
> with google ads and now the first 3 results are always ads that may claim to
> be what your looking for, but lead to nothing even close.
>
>
> On Sat, Jan 17, 2009 at 3:53 AM, Jon <jonpan at onlinehome.de> wrote:
>
>> I use (almost) exclusively ask.com. I don't like entities that get so big
>> they feel able to take over my PC or life. (Has anybody tried lately to
>> install Google Earth on D:, for example?)
>> It's like Big Government: "We know what's best for you and we'll make damn
>> sure you can't do anything else".
>>
>> BTW., I have the impression that the results from all the search engines
>> get worse by the day. The first list shows you exactly what you want, but
>> clicking the link takes you to a place that shows no sign of the initial
>> question or answer. Too many results take one to commercial sites, too many
>> to dead links.
>>
>> I'd better shut up and get off my high horse - but it would be interesting
>> to hear others' opinions...
>>
>> John
>> Od/G
>>
>> To add to Merna's list:
>> www.searchability.com
>> www.cuil.com
>> www.AllTheWeb.com
>>
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: Eric and Merna Bitter
>> To: Tech Support Guy Mailing List
>> Sent: Saturday, January 17, 2009 5:57 AM
>> Subject: TSGL: search engines (was Re: Desktop icon needed)
>>
>>
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "H Davis" <hdavis1 at gmail.com>
>> To: "Tech Support Guy Mailing List" <list at tsgserver.com>
>> Sent: Saturday, January 17, 2009 12:52 PM
>> Subject: Re: TSGL: Desktop icon needed
>>
>>
>> Ya, but nobody will fess up to the 8000 Google searches we did to find
>> the answer. If I could type faster I woulda been first; I coulda been a
>> contenda too.
>>
>> H Davis
>>
>>
>>
>> Good one, H., and SO true.
>>
>> Is there anyone on this List who does NOT use Google?  (If there is,
>> please
>> speak up -- I'm sure I'm not the only one who is curious about this.)
>>
>> I can remember using search engines like AlltheWeb, AltaVista, Ask Jeeves,
>> and Dogpile in the good old days (pre-Google, or pre-Google dominance --
>> and
>> these days the "good old days" are not very old).   I think MSN was
>> "inbuilt" (part of IE).   And of course there was Yahoo.
>>
>> Although I have them (or their successors, e.g. Ask.com instead of Ask
>> Jeeves - and now including Teoma) in a favorites sub-folder, and although
>> I
>> often think I should try to find things with other engines, invariably I
>> use
>> Google.
>>
>> In seven favorites' sub-folders (se, se by proxy, se images - visual, se
>> metasearch, se people, se recommendation, se shopping) I have about two
>> hundred links to search engines or related items/articles.  Some are
>> probably no longer functioning.  Here are a few of the non-Google links.
>>
>> http://aumha.org/search.htm
>> http://www.brainly.com/   (same as http://www.gonzu.com)
>> http://www.driversearch.com
>> http://www.uta.fi/FAST/search.html
>> http://kinderstart.com/
>> http://lii.org/
>> http://www.scrubtheweb.com/
>> http://www.searchenginecolossus.com/
>> http://searchenginewatch.com/2159211   (article)
>> http://www.skreemr.com/
>> http://www.songza.com/
>> http://turbo10.com/
>> http://www.webwombat.com.au/
>>
>> http://www.iboogie.tv/
>> http://www.incrawler.com/
>> http://www.nieuwsbronnen.com/newssearchportal/
>>
>> And, to return to Google, there are the "Topic-specific search engines"
>> like
>> Google Scholar -- see ten links at bottom of this page:
>> http://www.google.com/advanced_search
>>
>> Can any other List members recommend non-Google engines which you
>> particularly like and/or find useful?
>>
>> Merna
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Tech Support Guy Mailing List
>> http://www.tsgserver.com/list/
>> _______________________________________________
>> Tech Support Guy Mailing List
>> http://www.tsgserver.com/list/
>>
>
>
>
> --
> Thanks
> Ian R-P
> Patience is a virtue.
>
>


-- 
Thanks
Ian R-P
Patience is a virtue.

From mikec at pcug.org.au  Sat Jan 17 04:43:22 2009
From: mikec at pcug.org.au (Mike Cassidy)
Date: Sat, 17 Jan 2009 20:43:22 +1100
Subject: TSGL: Outlook rule question
In-Reply-To: <62B86C1344B343EF832553EF4C511A83@KathrynVista>
Message-ID: <LPBBIMBEGNOAFIECDFFHGECKEIAA.mikec@pcug.org.au>

Hi Kathryn,

This a different approach that I use myself. Before using Outlook to
download my email I look at the messages on my ISP's mail server using
Mailwasher (no doubt others would have their own favourites for this). This
allows me to set up Friends and Black lists; open messages to see their
content if I'm not sure about them; delete them from the server and
generally prevent most of the unwanted stuff ever getting near my PC. It
links to the email client (Outlook for me) and after deleting the unwanted
messages, opens Outlook ready for me to Send/Receive messages.

This may be a way forward for you.

Regards,
MikeC

-----Original Message-----
From: list-bounces at tsgserver.com [mailto:list-bounces at tsgserver.com]On
Behalf Of Kathryn Bassett
Sent: Friday, 16 January 2009 4:29 PM
To: 'Tech Support Guy Mailing List'
Subject: Re: TSGL: Outlook rule question


Neither would work. The subject line is never the same and there is no text
at all in the body, just an "image" of text. In fact, when I tried to
"select" some text to copy, that is when I found out that it was a linked
image.

> -----Original Message-----
> From: list-bounces at tsgserver.com
> [mailto:list-bounces at tsgserver.com] On Behalf Of Ian Ramsey-Planck
> Sent: 15 Jan 2009 5:03 PM
> To: Tech Support Guy Mailing List
> Subject: Re: TSGL: Outlook rule question
>
> When i go to create a new rule, it gives me the option to
> select 'Where the subject line contains specific words' or
> 'Where the message body contains specific words' wouldn't that work?
>
> On Thu, Jan 15, 2009 at 7:56 PM, Kathryn Bassett
> <kathryn at bassett.net>wrote:
>
> > I have Outlook2003 and have a rule I want to set up and
> can't figure
> > out how to do it. I have a real good spam blocker on the
> server side
> > of my email (email service by everyone.net), but there is one email
> > that does not get caught. The entire email is an image (linked) and
> > starts out Your Debts Could Make You Rich. Here's a sample
> of who it's
> > from:
> >
> > john.cmfdcll at yourmeterreader.com; on behalf of; J. Cummuta
> > [Secret11nji at yourmeterreader.com]
> >
> > It would be a simple rule execpt for one thing. The ONLY
> commonality
> > that these emails (that come 2-3 times a day) share is the
> "on behalf of J.
> > Cummuta". I can't figure out how to make a rule on the
> "name" in the
> > on behalf of portion. If there was a way to filter on
> Cummuta, I could
> > send these suckers straight to the trash.
> >
> > Can anyone help?
> >
> > --
> > Kathryn Rhinehart Bassett (Pasadena CA) "Genealogy is my
> bag" "GH is
> > my soap"
> > kathryn at bassett.net
> > http://bassett.net
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Tech Support Guy Mailing List
> > http://www.tsgserver.com/list/
> >
>
>
>
> --
> Thanks
> Ian R-P
> Patience is a virtue.
> _______________________________________________
> Tech Support Guy Mailing List
> http://www.tsgserver.com/list/


_______________________________________________
Tech Support Guy Mailing List
http://www.tsgserver.com/list/



From mikec at pcug.org.au  Sat Jan 17 04:52:20 2009
From: mikec at pcug.org.au (Mike Cassidy)
Date: Sat, 17 Jan 2009 20:52:20 +1100
Subject: TSGL: Outlook rule question
In-Reply-To: <62B86C1344B343EF832553EF4C511A83@KathrynVista>
Message-ID: <LPBBIMBEGNOAFIECDFFHAECLEIAA.mikec@pcug.org.au>

Hi Kathryn, again,

I always hit the send button without thinking things through.

To pursue the rules option, you might try one or more of the Outlook MVPs;
you can choose some Outlook MVPs from:
	https://mvp.support.microsoft.com/communities/mvp.aspx?name=outlook

HTH
MikeC

-----Original Message-----
From: list-bounces at tsgserver.com [mailto:list-bounces at tsgserver.com]On
Behalf Of Kathryn Bassett
Sent: Friday, 16 January 2009 4:29 PM
To: 'Tech Support Guy Mailing List'
Subject: Re: TSGL: Outlook rule question


Neither would work. The subject line is never the same and there is no text
at all in the body, just an "image" of text. In fact, when I tried to
"select" some text to copy, that is when I found out that it was a linked
image.

> -----Original Message-----
> From: list-bounces at tsgserver.com
> [mailto:list-bounces at tsgserver.com] On Behalf Of Ian Ramsey-Planck
> Sent: 15 Jan 2009 5:03 PM
> To: Tech Support Guy Mailing List
> Subject: Re: TSGL: Outlook rule question
>
> When i go to create a new rule, it gives me the option to
> select 'Where the subject line contains specific words' or
> 'Where the message body contains specific words' wouldn't that work?
>
> On Thu, Jan 15, 2009 at 7:56 PM, Kathryn Bassett
> <kathryn at bassett.net>wrote:
>
> > I have Outlook2003 and have a rule I want to set up and
> can't figure
> > out how to do it. I have a real good spam blocker on the
> server side
> > of my email (email service by everyone.net), but there is one email
> > that does not get caught. The entire email is an image (linked) and
> > starts out Your Debts Could Make You Rich. Here's a sample
> of who it's
> > from:
> >
> > john.cmfdcll at yourmeterreader.com; on behalf of; J. Cummuta
> > [Secret11nji at yourmeterreader.com]
> >
> > It would be a simple rule execpt for one thing. The ONLY
> commonality
> > that these emails (that come 2-3 times a day) share is the
> "on behalf of J.
> > Cummuta". I can't figure out how to make a rule on the
> "name" in the
> > on behalf of portion. If there was a way to filter on
> Cummuta, I could
> > send these suckers straight to the trash.
> >
> > Can anyone help?
> >
> > --
> > Kathryn Rhinehart Bassett (Pasadena CA) "Genealogy is my
> bag" "GH is
> > my soap"
> > kathryn at bassett.net
> > http://bassett.net
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Tech Support Guy Mailing List
> > http://www.tsgserver.com/list/
> >
>
>
>
> --
> Thanks
> Ian R-P
> Patience is a virtue.
> _______________________________________________
> Tech Support Guy Mailing List
> http://www.tsgserver.com/list/


_______________________________________________
Tech Support Guy Mailing List
http://www.tsgserver.com/list/



From embitt at westnet.com.au  Sat Jan 17 10:42:32 2009
From: embitt at westnet.com.au (Eric and Merna Bitter)
Date: Sun, 18 Jan 2009 01:42:32 +1000
Subject: TSGL: search engines (was Re: Desktop icon needed)
References: <6.1.0.6.2.20090116084942.026a8788@POP3.gorge.net><LPBBIMBEGNOAFIECDFFHOECIEIAA.mikec@pcug.org.au><6.1.0.6.2.20090116172221.0268b418@POP3.gorge.net><497147FF.6060502@gmail.com>
	<020e01c97860$39823d40$0401a8c0@number12><D5038CCF92004690BDE12D708ACB4910@johnsp2><adc2940c0901170106u4c603629j5bb78abbb8d1ea0d@mail.gmail.com>
	<adc2940c0901170109necdf8d7rc2e78066a4b9b542@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <023c01c978ba$3a07a700$0401a8c0@number12>

Ian,

Thanks for the video link.  I have watched almost fifteen minutes of it and
plan to watch the whole thing during my ISP's off-peak time.  It also looks
as though Fora TV (new to me) has some other good videos.

Ian and John,

I agree with your comments about the changing nature of search results.  The
change has been gradual, even subtle, I think, so that it's only when one
recalls what searching and the results were like "originally" that one
realises how dramatic the change has actually been.

On the other hand (to play the devil's advocate here?), I also remember that
when advertisements (the clearly marked ones, and we should be thankful that
they are so marked) first appeared in search results, I intentionally passed
over them and started checking other links.  Then one day I thought to
myself, "Merna, why should you be prejudiced AGAINST advertisements?  They
might be just as helpful as, or more helpful than, unpaid results."  And
once I started to check them (as judiciously as I did the unpaid links), I
found many of them were of equal assistance.

I think it's still true that paid and unpaid results can be equally helpful.
However, as you have both pointed out, the less relevant results also seem
to be increasing.  How much of the "nothing even close" (Ian) and "worse by
the day" (John) situation is caused by the effectiveness/ineffectiveness of
a search engine's methodology, and how much is caused by the explosion of
information to be searched out there?  The bigger the haystack, the more
difficult it is to find those needles and the more likely one will come
across thumb tacks, straight pins, and other needle-like objects (which of
course might be more interesting than the needle one was originally
seeking).

John,

Thanks for the three links.  The searchability.com one was new to me; the
other two were among the many I did not post.  (I didn't want to swamp
everyone with dozens of links, many of which might no longer be valid.  As I
said previously, I seem to wind up with Google almost all of the time even
though I have so many others saved.)

Three more:
http://www.search-22.com/
http://www.filewatcher.com/
http://infomine.ucr.edu/

Does anybody else have links to search engines and or articles/information
about searching to share?

Merna




----- Original Message -----
From: "Ian Ramsey-Planck" <ian at iarp.ca>
To: "Tech Support Guy Mailing List" <list at tsgserver.com>
Sent: Saturday, January 17, 2009 7:09 PM
Subject: Re: TSGL: search engines (was Re: Desktop icon needed)


And of course, within minutes of sending that email i find the video.
http://fora.tv/2008/09/11/Jimmy_Wales_on_Democratizing_Search_Engines

On Sat, Jan 17, 2009 at 4:06 AM, Ian Ramsey-Planck <ian at iarp.ca> wrote:

> There was a video on Fora TV i watched a couple weeks back that i'm unable
> to find. It talked about how much Google search results have changed since
> starting.
> Before everything was almost always 100% relevant, and then they came out
> with google ads and now the first 3 results are always ads that may claim
to
> be what your looking for, but lead to nothing even close.
>
>
> On Sat, Jan 17, 2009 at 3:53 AM, Jon <jonpan at onlinehome.de> wrote:
>
>> I use (almost) exclusively ask.com. I don't like entities that get so big
>> they feel able to take over my PC or life. (Has anybody tried lately to
>> install Google Earth on D:, for example?)
>> It's like Big Government: "We know what's best for you and we'll make
damn
>> sure you can't do anything else".
>>
>> BTW., I have the impression that the results from all the search engines
>> get worse by the day. The first list shows you exactly what you want, but
>> clicking the link takes you to a place that shows no sign of the initial
>> question or answer. Too many results take one to commercial sites, too
many
>> to dead links.
>>
>> I'd better shut up and get off my high horse - but it would be
interesting
>> to hear others' opinions...
>>
>> John
>> Od/G
>>
>> To add to Merna's list:
>> www.searchability.com
>> www.cuil.com
>> www.AllTheWeb.com
>>
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: Eric and Merna Bitter
>> To: Tech Support Guy Mailing List
>> Sent: Saturday, January 17, 2009 5:57 AM
>> Subject: TSGL: search engines (was Re: Desktop icon needed)
>>
>>
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "H Davis" <hdavis1 at gmail.com>
>> To: "Tech Support Guy Mailing List" <list at tsgserver.com>
>> Sent: Saturday, January 17, 2009 12:52 PM
>> Subject: Re: TSGL: Desktop icon needed
>>
>>
>> Ya, but nobody will fess up to the 8000 Google searches we did to find
>> the answer. If I could type faster I woulda been first; I coulda been a
>> contenda too.
>>
>> H Davis
>>
>>
>>
>> Good one, H., and SO true.
>>
>> Is there anyone on this List who does NOT use Google?  (If there is,
>> please
>> speak up -- I'm sure I'm not the only one who is curious about this.)
>>
>> I can remember using search engines like AlltheWeb, AltaVista, Ask
Jeeves,
>> and Dogpile in the good old days (pre-Google, or pre-Google dominance --
>> and
>> these days the "good old days" are not very old).   I think MSN was
>> "inbuilt" (part of IE).   And of course there was Yahoo.
>>
>> Although I have them (or their successors, e.g. Ask.com instead of Ask
>> Jeeves - and now including Teoma) in a favorites sub-folder, and although
>> I
>> often think I should try to find things with other engines, invariably I
>> use
>> Google.
>>
>> In seven favorites' sub-folders (se, se by proxy, se images - visual, se
>> metasearch, se people, se recommendation, se shopping) I have about two
>> hundred links to search engines or related items/articles.  Some are
>> probably no longer functioning.  Here are a few of the non-Google links.
>>
>> http://aumha.org/search.htm
>> http://www.brainly.com/   (same as http://www.gonzu.com)
>> http://www.driversearch.com
>> http://www.uta.fi/FAST/search.html
>> http://kinderstart.com/
>> http://lii.org/
>> http://www.scrubtheweb.com/
>> http://www.searchenginecolossus.com/
>> http://searchenginewatch.com/2159211   (article)
>> http://www.skreemr.com/
>> http://www.songza.com/
>> http://turbo10.com/
>> http://www.webwombat.com.au/
>>
>> http://www.iboogie.tv/
>> http://www.incrawler.com/
>> http://www.nieuwsbronnen.com/newssearchportal/
>>
>> And, to return to Google, there are the "Topic-specific search engines"
>> like
>> Google Scholar -- see ten links at bottom of this page:
>> http://www.google.com/advanced_search
>>
>> Can any other List members recommend non-Google engines which you
>> particularly like and/or find useful?
>>
>> Merna
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Tech Support Guy Mailing List
>> http://www.tsgserver.com/list/
>> _______________________________________________
>> Tech Support Guy Mailing List
>> http://www.tsgserver.com/list/
>>
>
>
>
> --
> Thanks
> Ian R-P
> Patience is a virtue.
>
>


--
Thanks
Ian R-P
Patience is a virtue.
_______________________________________________
Tech Support Guy Mailing List
http://www.tsgserver.com/list/


--
No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG.
Version: 7.5.552 / Virus Database: 270.10.8/1898 - Release Date: 2009-01-16
3:09 PM





From kathryn at bassett.net  Sat Jan 17 14:59:40 2009
From: kathryn at bassett.net (Kathryn Bassett)
Date: Sat, 17 Jan 2009 11:59:40 -0800
Subject: TSGL: Outlook rule question
In-Reply-To: <8FE99C9061AC4BA1897C7D9BFA94DDAF@johnsp2>
References: <92A2498E21D04138BCEC3723B0E09EA9@KathrynVista>	<adc2940c0901151703h486156e4tcb746304ad91762e@mail.gmail.com><62B86C1344B343EF832553EF4C511A83@KathrynVista><497144DF.5070206@gmail.com><28F4CAFE21AD4FB4BEE56ECC4D8011EE@KathrynVista>
	<8FE99C9061AC4BA1897C7D9BFA94DDAF@johnsp2>
Message-ID: <83A8FB882DA5452EB536307A86741AE4@KathrynVista>

I *could* make a rule based on, in my sample case, blocking
yourmeterreader.com but this same email comes from dozens of different
domains. Again, the domain is very seldom the same. What I'm trying to find
out is how to filter on the "on behalf of" portion. But don't feel bad, I've
not even gotten a nibble on the Outlook forum. So it may not be possible.
Thanks to all for even trying.
Kathryn

> -----Original Message-----
> From: list-bounces at tsgserver.com 
> [mailto:list-bounces at tsgserver.com] On Behalf Of Jon
> Sent: 17 Jan 2009 12:56 AM
> To: Tech Support Guy Mailing List
> Subject: Re: TSGL: Outlook rule question
> 
> Have you tried looking at 'Forward' or 'Reply' or even 
> printing it out. You may get an address from there that you 
> could enter into your filter list or use 'block sender'.
> 
> John
> Od/G
> 
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Kathryn Bassett
> To: 'Tech Support Guy Mailing List' 
> Sent: Saturday, January 17, 2009 6:52 AM
> Subject: Re: TSGL: Outlook rule question
> 
> 
> Nope, that's not the case. You missed the part that said The 
> ONLY commonality that these emails share is the "on behalf of 
> J. Cummuta". The "on the bahalf" part is not part of the 
> sender, it is the name alias. Same problem on the server 
> side. Thanks for trying.
> Kathryn
> 
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: list-bounces at tsgserver.com
> > [mailto:list-bounces at tsgserver.com] On Behalf Of H Davis
> > Sent: 16 Jan 2009 6:39 PM
> > To: Tech Support Guy Mailing List
> > Subject: Re: TSGL: Outlook rule question
> > 
> > Kathryn,
> > 
> > I don't use Outlook but is there an option to filter on the 
> "from" or 
> > "sender"? If so, try using just the "yourmeterreader.com" part to 
> > filter on. Your example suggests that this part is always the same.
> > 
> > Or, can you go back to the server side spam blocker and 
> tell it that 
> > these are spam; either before or after you've read them by 
> Outlook. If 
> > so, it might eventually learn that they are spam. An image 
> only e-mail 
> > should get a pretty high spam score. I'm surprised that the server 
> > anti-spam program won't catch it.
> > 
> > H Davis
> > 
> > Kathryn Bassett wrote:
> > > Neither would work. The subject line is never the same and
> > there is no
> > > text at all in the body, just an "image" of text. In fact, when I 
> > > tried to "select" some text to copy, that is when I found
> > out that it
> > > was a linked image.
> > >
> > >   
> > >> -----Original Message-----
> > >> From: list-bounces at tsgserver.com
> > >> [mailto:list-bounces at tsgserver.com] On Behalf Of Ian 
> Ramsey-Planck
> > >> Sent: 15 Jan 2009 5:03 PM
> > >> To: Tech Support Guy Mailing List
> > >> Subject: Re: TSGL: Outlook rule question
> > >>
> > >> When i go to create a new rule, it gives me the option to select 
> > >> 'Where the subject line contains specific words' or 'Where the 
> > >> message body contains specific words' wouldn't that work?
> > >>
> > >> On Thu, Jan 15, 2009 at 7:56 PM, Kathryn Bassett
> > >> <kathryn at bassett.net>wrote:
> > >>
> > >>     
> > >>> I have Outlook2003 and have a rule I want to set up and
> > >>>       
> > >> can't figure
> > >>     
> > >>> out how to do it. I have a real good spam blocker on the
> > >>>       
> > >> server side
> > >>     
> > >>> of my email (email service by everyone.net), but there is
> > one email
> > >>> that does not get caught. The entire email is an image
> > (linked) and
> > >>> starts out Your Debts Could Make You Rich. Here's a sample
> > >>>       
> > >> of who it's
> > >>     
> > >>> from:
> > >>>
> > >>> john.cmfdcll at yourmeterreader.com; on behalf of; J. Cummuta 
> > >>> [Secret11nji at yourmeterreader.com]
> > >>>
> > >>> It would be a simple rule execpt for one thing. The ONLY
> > >>>       
> > >> commonality
> > >>     
> > >>> that these emails (that come 2-3 times a day) share is the
> > >>>       
> > >> "on behalf of J.
> > >>     
> > >>> Cummuta". I can't figure out how to make a rule on the
> > >>>       
> > >> "name" in the
> > >>     
> > >>> on behalf of portion. If there was a way to filter on
> > >>>       
> > >> Cummuta, I could
> > >>     
> > >>> send these suckers straight to the trash.
> > >>>
> > >>> Can anyone help?
> > >>>
> > >>> --
> > >>> Kathryn Rhinehart Bassett (Pasadena CA) "Genealogy is my
> > >>>       
> > >> bag" "GH is
> > >>     
> > >>> my soap"
> > >>> kathryn at bassett.net
> > >>> http://bassett.net
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>> _______________________________________________
> > >>> Tech Support Guy Mailing List
> > >>> http://www.tsgserver.com/list/
> > >>>
> > >>>       
> > >>
> > >> --
> > >> Thanks
> > >> Ian R-P
> > >> Patience is a virtue.
> > >> _______________________________________________
> > >> Tech Support Guy Mailing List
> > >> http://www.tsgserver.com/list/
> > >>     
> > >
> > >
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > Tech Support Guy Mailing List
> > > http://www.tsgserver.com/list/
> > >
> > >   
> > 
> > -- 
> > H Davis   hdavis1 at gmail.com
> > 
> > _______________________________________________
> > Tech Support Guy Mailing List
> > http://www.tsgserver.com/list/
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Tech Support Guy Mailing List
> http://www.tsgserver.com/list/
> _______________________________________________
> Tech Support Guy Mailing List
> http://www.tsgserver.com/list/



From kathryn at bassett.net  Sat Jan 17 15:20:06 2009
From: kathryn at bassett.net (Kathryn Bassett)
Date: Sat, 17 Jan 2009 12:20:06 -0800
Subject: TSGL: Outlook rule question
In-Reply-To: <LPBBIMBEGNOAFIECDFFHAECLEIAA.mikec@pcug.org.au>
References: <62B86C1344B343EF832553EF4C511A83@KathrynVista>
	<LPBBIMBEGNOAFIECDFFHAECLEIAA.mikec@pcug.org.au>
Message-ID: <9CD88A0D61E94BF9BADC1772F5B1196F@KathrynVista>

Thanks for the link, I've just sent a message to one of them. BTW, if anyone
wants a restatement of the problem, you can find it here:
http://office-outlook.com/outlook-forum/index.php/m/469656/#msg_469656

--
Kathryn Rhinehart Bassett (Pasadena CA)
"Genealogy is my bag" "GH is my soap"
kathryn at bassett.net
http://bassett.net   

> -----Original Message-----
> From: list-bounces at tsgserver.com 
> [mailto:list-bounces at tsgserver.com] On Behalf Of Mike Cassidy
> Sent: 17 Jan 2009 1:52 AM
> To: Tech Support Guy Mailing List
> Subject: Re: TSGL: Outlook rule question
> 
> Hi Kathryn, again,
> 
> I always hit the send button without thinking things through.
> 
> To pursue the rules option, you might try one or more of the 
> Outlook MVPs; you can choose some Outlook MVPs from:
> 	
> https://mvp.support.microsoft.com/communities/mvp.aspx?name=outlook
> 
> HTH
> MikeC



From deepend at tpg.com.au  Tue Jan 20 18:29:18 2009
From: deepend at tpg.com.au (Don Penlington)
Date: Wed, 21 Jan 2009 09:29:18 +1000
Subject: TSGL: Desktop icon needed
In-Reply-To: <c6f.30bd6ff3.36a2a02c@aol.com>
Message-ID: <4.3.2.20090121092717.00c52760@mail.tpg.com.au>


>:Windows key + D does it too, is
>there any difference?>>


Yes.

Winkey + d brings up desktop, then reverts it again to previous window.

Winkey + m is one-way only---ie it doesn't revert.

Don Penlington




From deepend at tpg.com.au  Tue Jan 20 18:48:08 2009
From: deepend at tpg.com.au (Don Penlington)
Date: Wed, 21 Jan 2009 09:48:08 +1000
Subject: TSGL: Hard drive acting like a filling station
Message-ID: <4.3.2.20090121093004.00c44b48@mail.tpg.com.au>

A friend called me over last nite.

His computer is running XP SP2. He was getting a message that the hard 
drive was nearly full.

His HD is divided into 2 partitions, C and E. C is 12 Gb and E is about 60 Gb.

I checked the C properties and it showed only 45 Mb free space. The 
computer was hardly running at all.

I managed to delete about 1 Gb of stuff off C. Rebooted and performance was 
back to normal.

Ran spyware checks and all clean. I didn't run an antivirus check as it 
would have taken too long.

1/2 hour later, up came the same message that the hard drive was full. On 
checking C properties again, this time it showed no free space at 
all---100% used.  The computer almost came to a halt and had difficulty 
closing and rebooting.

E drive was OK, plenty of free space there.

What could cause the C drive to fill of its own accord?  Is there a class 
of virus that does this? He's not very diligent about updating the a-v 
database, so I'm not confident that an a-v check will pick up anything. It 
probably wouldn't run anyway if the C-Drive is really full.

I don't think it would be possible for anything that size (1 Gb) to have 
been downloaded off the internet during that time, as he thinks his 
bandwidth allocation is limited to dialup at the moment, though he's not 
certain about that.

Another thing which may be part of the same problem is that I cannot open 
the Recycle Bin to empty it. When I check its properties, I get a message 
that Recycle Bin is not accessible. What could cause that.

I know there are some security suites such as Nortons that lock the Recycle 
Bin, but he has nothing like that on the computer.

Don Penlington

 From the Beach at Surfers Paradise in sunny Queensland.
Computer tutorials, local scenery,  and other things at my website:
http://users.tpg.com.au/deepend/index1.html



From jonpan at onlinehome.de  Wed Jan 21 04:06:45 2009
From: jonpan at onlinehome.de (Jon)
Date: Wed, 21 Jan 2009 10:06:45 +0100
Subject: TSGL: Hard drive acting like a filling station
References: <4.3.2.20090121093004.00c44b48@mail.tpg.com.au>
Message-ID: <170C625A2ACE42C990FD4F591DC7ACE5@johnsp2>

Check all the progs on C: to see where they are saving their stuff. Look particularly closely at Documents and Settings (Monster from MS). Ensure that in future they save to E:
Empty and reset System Restore, empty Prefetch. Move whatever progs you can to E: Should be possible to run XP SP2 and the unavoidable progs. at 4 to 5 GB. Run antivirus!

Maybe a search for C:\recycler will turn up something on the Bin. Sounds very suspicious.

John
Od/G
----- Original Message ----- 
From: Don Penlington 
To: 'Tech Support Guy Mailing List' 
Sent: Wednesday, January 21, 2009 12:48 AM
Subject: TSGL: Hard drive acting like a filling station


A friend called me over last nite.

His computer is running XP SP2. He was getting a message that the hard 
drive was nearly full.

His HD is divided into 2 partitions, C and E. C is 12 Gb and E is about 60 Gb.

I checked the C properties and it showed only 45 Mb free space. The 
computer was hardly running at all.

I managed to delete about 1 Gb of stuff off C. Rebooted and performance was 
back to normal.

Ran spyware checks and all clean. I didn't run an antivirus check as it 
would have taken too long.

1/2 hour later, up came the same message that the hard drive was full. On 
checking C properties again, this time it showed no free space at 
all---100% used.  The computer almost came to a halt and had difficulty 
closing and rebooting.

E drive was OK, plenty of free space there.

What could cause the C drive to fill of its own accord?  Is there a class 
of virus that does this? He's not very diligent about updating the a-v 
database, so I'm not confident that an a-v check will pick up anything. It 
probably wouldn't run anyway if the C-Drive is really full.

I don't think it would be possible for anything that size (1 Gb) to have 
been downloaded off the internet during that time, as he thinks his 
bandwidth allocation is limited to dialup at the moment, though he's not 
certain about that.

Another thing which may be part of the same problem is that I cannot open 
the Recycle Bin to empty it. When I check its properties, I get a message 
that Recycle Bin is not accessible. What could cause that.

I know there are some security suites such as Nortons that lock the Recycle 
Bin, but he has nothing like that on the computer.

Don Penlington

 From the Beach at Surfers Paradise in sunny Queensland.
Computer tutorials, local scenery,  and other things at my website:
http://users.tpg.com.au/deepend/index1.html


_______________________________________________
Tech Support Guy Mailing List
http://www.tsgserver.com/list/

From justin at whisperer.com.au  Wed Jan 21 08:04:32 2009
From: justin at whisperer.com.au (The Computer Whisperer)
Date: Thu, 22 Jan 2009 00:04:32 +1100
Subject: TSGL: Hard drive acting like a filling station
In-Reply-To: <170C625A2ACE42C990FD4F591DC7ACE5@johnsp2>
References: <4.3.2.20090121093004.00c44b48@mail.tpg.com.au>
	<170C625A2ACE42C990FD4F591DC7ACE5@johnsp2>
Message-ID: <2852b8d40901210504y635ee0bfh1579fad380871f14@mail.gmail.com>

Who the hell is the "computer whiz" that made C drive only 12GB?  WHAT A
MESS!

If you want to be normal and sensible about dealing with this problem
then....


1. backup all his data/documents

2. make sure you have install disks for his hardware and software too.

3. Install windows in 1 big partition as C drive. lets call it an 80GB
partition. Delete all other partitions during the windows install to make
sure things go smoothly

4. Make sure you install an Anti-Virus after the Windows Install is
completed (Avast antivirus is good and free too)

5. Ban any of his "friends" from touching his computer again, even if they
say "Let me on your computer because I can make it better" (better is a
frame of mind and is unique to each individual)

6. Tell him whoever installed Windows XP last time for him is a fool.

Regards,

Justin










2009/1/21 Jon <jonpan at onlinehome.de>

> Check all the progs on C: to see where they are saving their stuff. Look
> particularly closely at Documents and Settings (Monster from MS). Ensure
> that in future they save to E:
> Empty and reset System Restore, empty Prefetch. Move whatever progs you can
> to E: Should be possible to run XP SP2 and the unavoidable progs. at 4 to 5
> GB. Run antivirus!
>
> Maybe a search for C:\recycler will turn up something on the Bin. Sounds
> very suspicious.
>
> John
> Od/G
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Don Penlington
> To: 'Tech Support Guy Mailing List'
> Sent: Wednesday, January 21, 2009 12:48 AM
> Subject: TSGL: Hard drive acting like a filling station
>
>
> A friend called me over last nite.
>
> His computer is running XP SP2. He was getting a message that the hard
> drive was nearly full.
>
> His HD is divided into 2 partitions, C and E. C is 12 Gb and E is about 60
> Gb.
>
> I checked the C properties and it showed only 45 Mb free space. The
> computer was hardly running at all.
>
> I managed to delete about 1 Gb of stuff off C. Rebooted and performance was
> back to normal.
>
> Ran spyware checks and all clean. I didn't run an antivirus check as it
> would have taken too long.
>
> 1/2 hour later, up came the same message that the hard drive was full. On
> checking C properties again, this time it showed no free space at
> all---100% used.  The computer almost came to a halt and had difficulty
> closing and rebooting.
>
> E drive was OK, plenty of free space there.
>
> What could cause the C drive to fill of its own accord?  Is there a class
> of virus that does this? He's not very diligent about updating the a-v
> database, so I'm not confident that an a-v check will pick up anything. It
> probably wouldn't run anyway if the C-Drive is really full.
>
> I don't think it would be possible for anything that size (1 Gb) to have
> been downloaded off the internet during that time, as he thinks his
> bandwidth allocation is limited to dialup at the moment, though he's not
> certain about that.
>
> Another thing which may be part of the same problem is that I cannot open
> the Recycle Bin to empty it. When I check its properties, I get a message
> that Recycle Bin is not accessible. What could cause that.
>
> I know there are some security suites such as Nortons that lock the Recycle
> Bin, but he has nothing like that on the computer.
>
> Don Penlington
>
>  From the Beach at Surfers Paradise in sunny Queensland.
> Computer tutorials, local scenery,  and other things at my website:
> http://users.tpg.com.au/deepend/index1.html
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Tech Support Guy Mailing List
> http://www.tsgserver.com/list/
> _______________________________________________
> Tech Support Guy Mailing List
> http://www.tsgserver.com/list/
>



-- 
http://www.whisperer.com.au

The Computer Whisperer - Gets you where you want to be.

Friendly on-site technical support - Home and Small Business Specialist.

Telephone: (03) 5979 1122
Mobile 0406 467 701

Servicing the Mornington Peninsula (Victoria, Australia)

From tbrandl2 at chello.at  Wed Jan 21 10:15:57 2009
From: tbrandl2 at chello.at (Tilman Brandl)
Date: Wed, 21 Jan 2009 16:15:57 +0100
Subject: TSGL: Hard drive acting like a filling station
References: <4.3.2.20090121093004.00c44b48@mail.tpg.com.au><170C625A2ACE42C990FD4F591DC7ACE5@johnsp2>
	<2852b8d40901210504y635ee0bfh1579fad380871f14@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <0f4d01c97bdb$2dca80b0$0201a8c0@til4200>

Hi Justin,

"Who the hell is the "computer whiz" that made C drive only 12GB?  WHAT A MESS!"

I wonder what let's you say this ... I've had a smallish C: partition for years, without any problems. I started at about 8 GB, then had 10 and 12, now it's about 20 GB - never any problems. The reason to make it small: It's easy to backup in one single swoop regularily, with only the vital system information on it. You can't beat that.

Where I would agree though: For 3rd persons with limited computer skills I would tend to make C: bigger, depending on how big the whole HDD is, since they would find it difficult to keep other progs from getting installed on C: and spilling their stuff onto this partition (like e.g. AV progs, spam-protection, indexing programs lile Copernic Search etc.)

Tilman

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "The Computer Whisperer" <justin at whisperer.com.au>
To: "Tech Support Guy Mailing List" <list at tsgserver.com>
Sent: Wednesday, January 21, 2009 2:04 PM
Subject: Re: TSGL: Hard drive acting like a filling station


> Who the hell is the "computer whiz" that made C drive only 12GB?  WHAT A
> MESS!
> 
> If you want to be normal and sensible about dealing with this problem
> then....
> 
> 
> 1. backup all his data/documents
> 
> 2. make sure you have install disks for his hardware and software too.
> 
> 3. Install windows in 1 big partition as C drive. lets call it an 80GB
> partition. Delete all other partitions during the windows install to make
> sure things go smoothly
> 
> 4. Make sure you install an Anti-Virus after the Windows Install is
> completed (Avast antivirus is good and free too)
> 
> 5. Ban any of his "friends" from touching his computer again, even if they
> say "Let me on your computer because I can make it better" (better is a
> frame of mind and is unique to each individual)
> 
> 6. Tell him whoever installed Windows XP last time for him is a fool.
> 
> Regards,
> 
> Justin



From justin at whisperer.com.au  Wed Jan 21 21:05:45 2009
From: justin at whisperer.com.au (The Computer Whisperer)
Date: Thu, 22 Jan 2009 13:05:45 +1100
Subject: TSGL: Hard drive acting like a filling station
In-Reply-To: <0f4d01c97bdb$2dca80b0$0201a8c0@til4200>
References: <4.3.2.20090121093004.00c44b48@mail.tpg.com.au>
	<170C625A2ACE42C990FD4F591DC7ACE5@johnsp2>
	<2852b8d40901210504y635ee0bfh1579fad380871f14@mail.gmail.com>
	<0f4d01c97bdb$2dca80b0$0201a8c0@til4200>
Message-ID: <2852b8d40901211805i232e6061l8176b6dd0b125e66@mail.gmail.com>

typically C drive is where the pagefile/swapfile is, you need at least 20GB
of free space on whatever drive the swap file is on.

If the free space is lower than 20GB then you will experience performance
issues. ie Tilman, you're choking windows, it has no room to breathe.

The entire process you use forces people to learn how to "manage" their
system because of the restrictive theory behind what you are doing to their
machines.

Making computer novices go out of their way to manage what gets put on what
partition on their hard drive creates a situation that is difficult for
everyone especially the person who's computer it is.

Partitioning hard disk drives into logical disks was a fad. It was something
people did/do "because they can", there is generally no legitimate reason to
partition a drive into logical drives thesedays. Given the transfer speeds
of todays hardware, there is no reason not to backup the entire system as
opposed to bits and pieces of it as you're just creating more work for
yourself (unless that is the purpose of the exercise).

If you are restoring from a backup, why would you want to only restore half
of the system?

A mirror image backup is quite quick thesedays and easy.

If you are backing up to save documents because people are saving them into
C drive or all over the place then perhaps a bit of education of the theory
behind folder structures in windows may be necessary for the people you are
helping, it would take less time than them trying to get their head around
this "partitioning wizardry" you are attempting to perform.

If the style of backup is to keep all of the documents, then you just set
the backup to save the contents of the user folder, such as my documents,
desktop, favorites etc.

Regards,

Justin




-- 
http://www.whisperer.com.au

The Computer Whisperer - Gets you where you want to be.

Friendly on-site technical support - Home and Small Business Specialist.

Telephone: (03) 5979 1122
Mobile 0406 467 701

Servicing the Mornington Peninsula (Victoria, Australia)


2009/1/22 Tilman Brandl <tbrandl2 at chello.at>

> Hi Justin,
>
> "Who the hell is the "computer whiz" that made C drive only 12GB?  WHAT A
> MESS!"
>
> I wonder what let's you say this ... I've had a smallish C: partition for
> years, without any problems. I started at about 8 GB, then had 10 and 12,
> now it's about 20 GB - never any problems. The reason to make it small: It's
> easy to backup in one single swoop regularily, with only the vital system
> information on it. You can't beat that.
>
> Where I would agree though: For 3rd persons with limited computer skills I
> would tend to make C: bigger, depending on how big the whole HDD is, since
> they would find it difficult to keep other progs from getting installed on
> C: and spilling their stuff onto this partition (like e.g. AV progs,
> spam-protection, indexing programs lile Copernic Search etc.)
>
> Tilman
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "The Computer Whisperer" <justin at whisperer.com.au>
> To: "Tech Support Guy Mailing List" <list at tsgserver.com>
> Sent: Wednesday, January 21, 2009 2:04 PM
> Subject: Re: TSGL: Hard drive acting like a filling station
>
>
> > Who the hell is the "computer whiz" that made C drive only 12GB?  WHAT A
> > MESS!
> >
> > If you want to be normal and sensible about dealing with this problem
> > then....
> >
> >
> > 1. backup all his data/documents
> >
> > 2. make sure you have install disks for his hardware and software too.
> >
> > 3. Install windows in 1 big partition as C drive. lets call it an 80GB
> > partition. Delete all other partitions during the windows install to make
> > sure things go smoothly
> >
> > 4. Make sure you install an Anti-Virus after the Windows Install is
> > completed (Avast antivirus is good and free too)
> >
> > 5. Ban any of his "friends" from touching his computer again, even if
> they
> > say "Let me on your computer because I can make it better" (better is a
> > frame of mind and is unique to each individual)
> >
> > 6. Tell him whoever installed Windows XP last time for him is a fool.
> >
> > Regards,
> >
> > Justin
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Tech Support Guy Mailing List
> http://www.tsgserver.com/list/
>

From jonpan at onlinehome.de  Thu Jan 22 07:11:27 2009
From: jonpan at onlinehome.de (Jon)
Date: Thu, 22 Jan 2009 13:11:27 +0100
Subject: TSGL: Hard drive acting like a filling station
References: <4.3.2.20090121093004.00c44b48@mail.tpg.com.au><170C625A2ACE42C990FD4F591DC7ACE5@johnsp2><2852b8d40901210504y635ee0bfh1579fad380871f14@mail.gmail.com><0f4d01c97bdb$2dca80b0$0201a8c0@til4200>
	<2852b8d40901211805i232e6061l8176b6dd0b125e66@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <449E144819AB4684AD45862C57A8AABD@johnsp2>

Having the C:\ partition small has saved my bacon lots of times. You can put the pagefile on another partition or, better still, on another drive. I can get an image of C:\ onto one DVD and if something goes wrong it's easy to get the OS up and running again, even if I have to re-install some programmes. For a non-PC-literate operator you may be right, Justin, but for a lot of people who use this list I reckon Tilman's method has big advantages. 

John
Od/G

----- Original Message ----- 
From: The Computer Whisperer 
To: Tech Support Guy Mailing List 
Sent: Thursday, January 22, 2009 3:05 AM
Subject: Re: TSGL: Hard drive acting like a filling station


typically C drive is where the pagefile/swapfile is, you need at least 20GB
of free space on whatever drive the swap file is on.

If the free space is lower than 20GB then you will experience performance
issues. ie Tilman, you're choking windows, it has no room to breathe.

The entire process you use forces people to learn how to "manage" their
system because of the restrictive theory behind what you are doing to their
machines.

Making computer novices go out of their way to manage what gets put on what
partition on their hard drive creates a situation that is difficult for
everyone especially the person who's computer it is.

Partitioning hard disk drives into logical disks was a fad. It was something
people did/do "because they can", there is generally no legitimate reason to
partition a drive into logical drives thesedays. Given the transfer speeds
of todays hardware, there is no reason not to backup the entire system as
opposed to bits and pieces of it as you're just creating more work for
yourself (unless that is the purpose of the exercise).

If you are restoring from a backup, why would you want to only restore half
of the system?

A mirror image backup is quite quick thesedays and easy.

If you are backing up to save documents because people are saving them into
C drive or all over the place then perhaps a bit of education of the theory
behind folder structures in windows may be necessary for the people you are
helping, it would take less time than them trying to get their head around
this "partitioning wizardry" you are attempting to perform.

If the style of backup is to keep all of the documents, then you just set
the backup to save the contents of the user folder, such as my documents,
desktop, favorites etc.

Regards,

Justin




-- 
http://www.whisperer.com.au

The Computer Whisperer - Gets you where you want to be.

Friendly on-site technical support - Home and Small Business Specialist.

Telephone: (03) 5979 1122
Mobile 0406 467 701

Servicing the Mornington Peninsula (Victoria, Australia)


2009/1/22 Tilman Brandl <tbrandl2 at chello.at>

> Hi Justin,
>
> "Who the hell is the "computer whiz" that made C drive only 12GB?  WHAT A
> MESS!"
>
> I wonder what let's you say this ... I've had a smallish C: partition for
> years, without any problems. I started at about 8 GB, then had 10 and 12,
> now it's about 20 GB - never any problems. The reason to make it small: It's
> easy to backup in one single swoop regularily, with only the vital system
> information on it. You can't beat that.
>
> Where I would agree though: For 3rd persons with limited computer skills I
> would tend to make C: bigger, depending on how big the whole HDD is, since
> they would find it difficult to keep other progs from getting installed on
> C: and spilling their stuff onto this partition (like e.g. AV progs,
> spam-protection, indexing programs lile Copernic Search etc.)
>
> Tilman
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "The Computer Whisperer" <justin at whisperer.com.au>
> To: "Tech Support Guy Mailing List" <list at tsgserver.com>
> Sent: Wednesday, January 21, 2009 2:04 PM
> Subject: Re: TSGL: Hard drive acting like a filling station
>
>
> > Who the hell is the "computer whiz" that made C drive only 12GB?  WHAT A
> > MESS!
> >
> > If you want to be normal and sensible about dealing with this problem
> > then....
> >
> >
> > 1. backup all his data/documents
> >
> > 2. make sure you have install disks for his hardware and software too.
> >
> > 3. Install windows in 1 big partition as C drive. lets call it an 80GB
> > partition. Delete all other partitions during the windows install to make
> > sure things go smoothly
> >
> > 4. Make sure you install an Anti-Virus after the Windows Install is
> > completed (Avast antivirus is good and free too)
> >
> > 5. Ban any of his "friends" from touching his computer again, even if
> they
> > say "Let me on your computer because I can make it better" (better is a
> > frame of mind and is unique to each individual)
> >
> > 6. Tell him whoever installed Windows XP last time for him is a fool.
> >
> > Regards,
> >
> > Justin
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Tech Support Guy Mailing List
> http://www.tsgserver.com/list/
>
_______________________________________________
Tech Support Guy Mailing List
http://www.tsgserver.com/list/

From tbrandl2 at chello.at  Thu Jan 22 09:07:03 2009
From: tbrandl2 at chello.at (Tilman Brandl)
Date: Thu, 22 Jan 2009 15:07:03 +0100
Subject: TSGL: Hard drive acting like a filling station
References: <4.3.2.20090121093004.00c44b48@mail.tpg.com.au><170C625A2ACE42C990FD4F591DC7ACE5@johnsp2><2852b8d40901210504y635ee0bfh1579fad380871f14@mail.gmail.com><0f4d01c97bdb$2dca80b0$0201a8c0@til4200>
	<2852b8d40901211805i232e6061l8176b6dd0b125e66@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <109a01c97c9a$bbb6ffb0$0201a8c0@til4200>

Justin,

the swapfile indeed could be a point here, but I don't think it is, actually. Of course, my swapfile is on a different drive, because doing so until recently was 'state of the art' and meant to speed up things (please, let me know if this has changed). I would do this even with a 3rd person's machine whether or not he/she is IT-savvy. Most people won't even notice where that file sits ... With only a single HDD of course there's only the option of putting it onto a different partition, which would still let you make the system partition quite small. 

As to backing up whole (huge) images of drives/partitions, my method is different. Personally, I'm feeling safe with frequent backups of my full system (image) plus important data folders, regularly keeping about 3-4 of them. Even these smaller (acronis) backups could fill up my 250 GB backup drive rather quickly. Would I expand the scope of what I save (full images e.g. of the 100 GB of data on my 'data' partition), the backup drive would soon be full. But of course, this all can be managed in several different ways, depending on personal preferences.

> The entire process you use forces people to learn how to "manage" their
> system because of the restrictive theory behind what you are doing to their
> machines.

Re. the swapfile, I doubt that people will even notice if I move it off of C:, no need to learn anything new here.

In general though, I would like to repeat: I may look at things differently with 3rd persons' machines, depending on how good they can handle things.

Cheers
Tilman

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "The Computer Whisperer" <justin at whisperer.com.au>
To: "Tech Support Guy Mailing List" <list at tsgserver.com>
Sent: Thursday, January 22, 2009 3:05 AM
Subject: Re: TSGL: Hard drive acting like a filling station


> typically C drive is where the pagefile/swapfile is, you need at least 20GB
> of free space on whatever drive the swap file is on.
> 
> If the free space is lower than 20GB then you will experience performance
> issues. ie Tilman, you're choking windows, it has no room to breathe.
> 
> The entire process you use forces people to learn how to "manage" their
> system because of the restrictive theory behind what you are doing to their
> machines.
> 
> Making computer novices go out of their way to manage what gets put on what
> partition on their hard drive creates a situation that is difficult for
> everyone especially the person who's computer it is.
> 
> Partitioning hard disk drives into logical disks was a fad. It was something
> people did/do "because they can", there is generally no legitimate reason to
> partition a drive into logical drives thesedays. Given the transfer speeds
> of todays hardware, there is no reason not to backup the entire system as
> opposed to bits and pieces of it as you're just creating more work for
> yourself (unless that is the purpose of the exercise).
> 
> If you are restoring from a backup, why would you want to only restore half
> of the system?
> 
> A mirror image backup is quite quick thesedays and easy.
> 
> If you are backing up to save documents because people are saving them into
> C drive or all over the place then perhaps a bit of education of the theory
> behind folder structures in windows may be necessary for the people you are
> helping, it would take less time than them trying to get their head around
> this "partitioning wizardry" you are attempting to perform.
> 
> If the style of backup is to keep all of the documents, then you just set
> the backup to save the contents of the user folder, such as my documents,
> desktop, favorites etc.
> 
> Regards,
> 
> Justin
> 
> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> http://www.whisperer.com.au
> 
> The Computer Whisperer - Gets you where you want to be.
> 
> Friendly on-site technical support - Home and Small Business Specialist.
> 
> Telephone: (03) 5979 1122
> Mobile 0406 467 701
> 
> Servicing the Mornington Peninsula (Victoria, Australia)
> 
> 
> 2009/1/22 Tilman Brandl <tbrandl2 at chello.at>
> 
>> Hi Justin,
>>
>> "Who the hell is the "computer whiz" that made C drive only 12GB?  WHAT A
>> MESS!"
>>
>> I wonder what let's you say this ... I've had a smallish C: partition for
>> years, without any problems. I started at about 8 GB, then had 10 and 12,
>> now it's about 20 GB - never any problems. The reason to make it small: It's
>> easy to backup in one single swoop regularily, with only the vital system
>> information on it. You can't beat that.
>>
>> Where I would agree though: For 3rd persons with limited computer skills I
>> would tend to make C: bigger, depending on how big the whole HDD is, since
>> they would find it difficult to keep other progs from getting installed on
>> C: and spilling their stuff onto this partition (like e.g. AV progs,
>> spam-protection, indexing programs lile Copernic Search etc.)
>>
>> Tilman



From annandchuck at yahoo.com  Thu Jan 22 13:03:15 2009
From: annandchuck at yahoo.com (Chuck Neuenschwander)
Date: Thu, 22 Jan 2009 10:03:15 -0800 (PST)
Subject: TSGL: Desktop icon needed
In-Reply-To: <LPBBIMBEGNOAFIECDFFHOECIEIAA.mikec@pcug.org.au>
Message-ID: <293530.23070.qm@web110202.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>

Windows Logo+D:         Minimizes all open windows and displays the desktop

??? I use it all the time??? 

one of the few to memorize along with? cut-copy-paste

-Chuck

????  ?           


--- On Fri, 1/16/09, Mike Cassidy <mikec at pcug.org.au> wrote:
From: Mike Cassidy <mikec at pcug.org.au>
Subject: Re: TSGL: Desktop icon needed
To: "Tech Support Guy Mailing List" <list at tsgserver.com>
Date: Friday, January 16, 2009, 7:08 PM

Hi Sylvia,

Don has given you the quick, positive way show the desktop (key strokes are
always better than mousing about) and Ian has told you how to create the
.scf file Windows uses for this.

However, your .scf file may still be present and you have just deleted the
shortcut icon to it.

The MS Knowledge Base gives this way to do what you want:
	"If the Show Desktop icon is missing, and the Show Desktop.scf file is
	present in the Windows\System, or WINNT\System32 folder, you can add
it
	to the Quick Launch Bar by performing the following steps:

	"Click Start/ Find /Files or Folders, or
	 Start/ Search /For Files or Folders and search for *.scf.

	"Drag the Show Desktop file from the c:\windows\system folder to
the
	quick launch bar to create a shortcut for it there.

	"NOTE: If the Show Desktop icon is missing from the Quick Launch Bar, you
	can recreate it by following this article:

	"190355  (http://support.microsoft.com/kb/190355/EN-US/ ) How to
Re-create
	the Show Desktop Icon on Quick Launch Toolbar"

Hope this helps.
Regards,
MikeC

----------------------------------------------------------------------------
----

-----Original Message-----
From: list-bounces at tsgserver.com [mailto:list-bounces at tsgserver.com]On
Behalf Of Sylvia Gould
Sent: Saturday, 17 January 2009 3:51 AM
To: List at tsgserver.com
Subject: TSGL: Desktop icon needed


I don't remember how to create an icon that will restore the desktop when
other applications are open.  Can't seem to stumble onto the process.
Thanks.
Sylvia Gould


_______________________________________________
Tech Support Guy Mailing List
http://www.tsgserver.com/list/


_______________________________________________
Tech Support Guy Mailing List
http://www.tsgserver.com/list/

From notetomike at gmail.com  Thu Jan 22 14:53:04 2009
From: notetomike at gmail.com (Mike Morgan)
Date: Thu, 22 Jan 2009 13:53:04 -0600
Subject: TSGL: Desktop icon needed
In-Reply-To: <293530.23070.qm@web110202.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>
References: <LPBBIMBEGNOAFIECDFFHOECIEIAA.mikec@pcug.org.au>
	<293530.23070.qm@web110202.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <73a2fd940901221153t744a14bjde2fa5bd2aa34d7@mail.gmail.com>

I like window key + D     because you can press it again and all the windows
will come back to you as well.

mike

On Thu, Jan 22, 2009 at 12:03 PM, Chuck Neuenschwander <
annandchuck at yahoo.com> wrote:

> Windows Logo+D:         Minimizes all open windows and displays the desktop
>
>     I use it all the time
>
> one of the few to memorize along with  cut-copy-paste
>
> -Chuck
>
>
>
>
> --- On Fri, 1/16/09, Mike Cassidy <mikec at pcug.org.au> wrote:
> From: Mike Cassidy <mikec at pcug.org.au>
> Subject: Re: TSGL: Desktop icon needed
> To: "Tech Support Guy Mailing List" <list at tsgserver.com>
> Date: Friday, January 16, 2009, 7:08 PM
>
> Hi Sylvia,
>
> Don has given you the quick, positive way show the desktop (key strokes are
> always better than mousing about) and Ian has told you how to create the
> .scf file Windows uses for this.
>
> However, your .scf file may still be present and you have just deleted the
> shortcut icon to it.
>
> The MS Knowledge Base gives this way to do what you want:
>        "If the Show Desktop icon is missing, and the Show Desktop.scf file
> is
>        present in the Windows\System, or WINNT\System32 folder, you can add
> it
>        to the Quick Launch Bar by performing the following steps:
>
>        "Click Start/ Find /Files or Folders, or
>         Start/ Search /For Files or Folders and search for *.scf.
>
>        "Drag the Show Desktop file from the c:\windows\system folder to
> the
>        quick launch bar to create a shortcut for it there.
>
>        "NOTE: If the Show Desktop icon is missing from the Quick Launch
> Bar, you
>        can recreate it by following this article:
>
>        "190355  (http://support.microsoft.com/kb/190355/EN-US/ ) How to
> Re-create
>        the Show Desktop Icon on Quick Launch Toolbar"
>
> Hope this helps.
> Regards,
> MikeC
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
> ----
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: list-bounces at tsgserver.com [mailto:list-bounces at tsgserver.com]On
> Behalf Of Sylvia Gould
> Sent: Saturday, 17 January 2009 3:51 AM
> To: List at tsgserver.com
> Subject: TSGL: Desktop icon needed
>
>
> I don't remember how to create an icon that will restore the desktop when
> other applications are open.  Can't seem to stumble onto the process.
> Thanks.
> Sylvia Gould
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Tech Support Guy Mailing List
> http://www.tsgserver.com/list/
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Tech Support Guy Mailing List
> http://www.tsgserver.com/list/
> _______________________________________________
> Tech Support Guy Mailing List
> http://www.tsgserver.com/list/
>



-- 



U.S.A.

From justin at whisperer.com.au  Thu Jan 22 23:44:05 2009
From: justin at whisperer.com.au (The Computer Whisperer)
Date: Fri, 23 Jan 2009 15:44:05 +1100
Subject: TSGL: Hard drive acting like a filling station
In-Reply-To: <109a01c97c9a$bbb6ffb0$0201a8c0@til4200>
References: <4.3.2.20090121093004.00c44b48@mail.tpg.com.au>
	<170C625A2ACE42C990FD4F591DC7ACE5@johnsp2>
	<2852b8d40901210504y635ee0bfh1579fad380871f14@mail.gmail.com>
	<0f4d01c97bdb$2dca80b0$0201a8c0@til4200>
	<2852b8d40901211805i232e6061l8176b6dd0b125e66@mail.gmail.com>
	<109a01c97c9a$bbb6ffb0$0201a8c0@til4200>
Message-ID: <2852b8d40901222044v6c713dd4xabfded0523f4605a@mail.gmail.com>

Tilman,

Putting your swap file on a different physical drive will have performance
advantages.

On a different partition on the same physical drive there is no perfomance
advantage

I feel that if the user knows to put his/her documents in the mydocs or on
desktop then selecting what gets backed up regularly isn't a big deal.

Perhaps mirror image when new programs have been installed. Backup documents
more frequently.

I think the whole point of mirror imaging is so you don't have to install
programs or customise the way things work. ie you just continue on your
merry way without too much hassle.

Mirror imaging half of your Windows installation doesn't really make alot of
sense

Imaging to a DVD is monotonous and time consuming, Hard drives are
incredibly cheap thesedays. There are reliability issues with splitting the
archive across multiple media too...

I think Tilman's method is overly complicated.

Have you ever installed a program on D drive and then gone to run it and
because of the creator of the program's sloppy programming, it looks for the
program on C drive? I have.

Regards,

Justin

2009/1/23 Tilman Brandl <tbrandl2 at chello.at>

> Justin,
>
> the swapfile indeed could be a point here, but I don't think it is,
> actually. Of course, my swapfile is on a different drive, because doing so
> until recently was 'state of the art' and meant to speed up things (please,
> let me know if this has changed). I would do this even with a 3rd person's
> machine whether or not he/she is IT-savvy. Most people won't even notice
> where that file sits ... With only a single HDD of course there's only the
> option of putting it onto a different partition, which would still let you
> make the system partition quite small.
>
> As to backing up whole (huge) images of drives/partitions, my method is
> different. Personally, I'm feeling safe with frequent backups of my full
> system (image) plus important data folders, regularly keeping about 3-4 of
> them. Even these smaller (acronis) backups could fill up my 250 GB backup
> drive rather quickly. Would I expand the scope of what I save (full images
> e.g. of the 100 GB of data on my 'data' partition), the backup drive would
> soon be full. But of course, this all can be managed in several different
> ways, depending on personal preferences.
>
> > The entire process you use forces people to learn how to "manage" their
> > system because of the restrictive theory behind what you are doing to
> their
> > machines.
>
> Re. the swapfile, I doubt that people will even notice if I move it off of
> C:, no need to learn anything new here.
>
> In general though, I would like to repeat: I may look at things differently
> with 3rd persons' machines, depending on how good they can handle things.
>
> Cheers
> Tilman
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "The Computer Whisperer" <justin at whisperer.com.au>
> To: "Tech Support Guy Mailing List" <list at tsgserver.com>
> Sent: Thursday, January 22, 2009 3:05 AM
> Subject: Re: TSGL: Hard drive acting like a filling station
>
>
> > typically C drive is where the pagefile/swapfile is, you need at least
> 20GB
> > of free space on whatever drive the swap file is on.
> >
> > If the free space is lower than 20GB then you will experience performance
> > issues. ie Tilman, you're choking windows, it has no room to breathe.
> >
> > The entire process you use forces people to learn how to "manage" their
> > system because of the restrictive theory behind what you are doing to
> their
> > machines.
> >
> > Making computer novices go out of their way to manage what gets put on
> what
> > partition on their hard drive creates a situation that is difficult for
> > everyone especially the person who's computer it is.
> >
> > Partitioning hard disk drives into logical disks was a fad. It was
> something
> > people did/do "because they can", there is generally no legitimate reason
> to
> > partition a drive into logical drives thesedays. Given the transfer
> speeds
> > of todays hardware, there is no reason not to backup the entire system as
> > opposed to bits and pieces of it as you're just creating more work for
> > yourself (unless that is the purpose of the exercise).
> >
> > If you are restoring from a backup, why would you want to only restore
> half
> > of the system?
> >
> > A mirror image backup is quite quick thesedays and easy.
> >
> > If you are backing up to save documents because people are saving them
> into
> > C drive or all over the place then perhaps a bit of education of the
> theory
> > behind folder structures in windows may be necessary for the people you
> are
> > helping, it would take less time than them trying to get their head
> around
> > this "partitioning wizardry" you are attempting to perform.
> >
> > If the style of backup is to keep all of the documents, then you just set
> > the backup to save the contents of the user folder, such as my documents,
> > desktop, favorites etc.
> >
> > Regards,
> >
> > Justin
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > http://www.whisperer.com.au
> >
> > The Computer Whisperer - Gets you where you want to be.
> >
> > Friendly on-site technical support - Home and Small Business Specialist.
> >
> > Telephone: (03) 5979 1122
> > Mobile 0406 467 701
> >
> > Servicing the Mornington Peninsula (Victoria, Australia)
> >
> >
> > 2009/1/22 Tilman Brandl <tbrandl2 at chello.at>
> >
> >> Hi Justin,
> >>
> >> "Who the hell is the "computer whiz" that made C drive only 12GB?  WHAT
> A
> >> MESS!"
> >>
> >> I wonder what let's you say this ... I've had a smallish C: partition
> for
> >> years, without any problems. I started at about 8 GB, then had 10 and
> 12,
> >> now it's about 20 GB - never any problems. The reason to make it small:
> It's
> >> easy to backup in one single swoop regularily, with only the vital
> system
> >> information on it. You can't beat that.
> >>
> >> Where I would agree though: For 3rd persons with limited computer skills
> I
> >> would tend to make C: bigger, depending on how big the whole HDD is,
> since
> >> they would find it difficult to keep other progs from getting installed
> on
> >> C: and spilling their stuff onto this partition (like e.g. AV progs,
> >> spam-protection, indexing programs lile Copernic Search etc.)
> >>
> >> Tilman
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Tech Support Guy Mailing List
> http://www.tsgserver.com/list/
>



-- 
http://www.whisperer.com.au

The Computer Whisperer - Gets you where you want to be.

Friendly on-site technical support - Home and Small Business Specialist.

Telephone: (03) 5979 1122
Mobile 0406 467 701

Servicing the Mornington Peninsula (Victoria, Australia)

From tbrandl2 at chello.at  Sat Jan 24 07:07:23 2009
From: tbrandl2 at chello.at (Tilman Brandl)
Date: Sat, 24 Jan 2009 13:07:23 +0100
Subject: TSGL: Hard drive acting like a filling station
References: <4.3.2.20090121093004.00c44b48@mail.tpg.com.au><170C625A2ACE42C990FD4F591DC7ACE5@johnsp2><2852b8d40901210504y635ee0bfh1579fad380871f14@mail.gmail.com><0f4d01c97bdb$2dca80b0$0201a8c0@til4200><2852b8d40901211805i232e6061l8176b6dd0b125e66@mail.gmail.com><109a01c97c9a$bbb6ffb0$0201a8c0@til4200>
	<2852b8d40901222044v6c713dd4xabfded0523f4605a@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <001b01c97e1c$544630c0$0201a8c0@til4200>

Justin,

let me add a few more remarks to this interesting discussion - just to clear up things. I can easily understand your points, or at least most of them, but ...

> Mirror imaging half of your Windows installation doesn't really make alot of
> sense
I AM indeed imaging the WHOLE Windows installation on my (system) partition C: What I don't mirror FULLY is program installations (D:) and some 100 GB of personal data from E: (I don't backup e.g. lexica, reference books, GIS system etc.). My docs otoh get backed up selectively and frequently.

My personal experience is, that when things go bad, it's the system on C: and only this. That much I've learned over a long time of working with my PCs.

> Have you ever installed a program on D drive and then gone to run it and
> because of the creator of the program's sloppy programming, it looks for the
> program on C drive? I have.
I guess this may indeed happen, but with the hundreds of programs that I must have installed over the last - let's say two - decades, this is a pretty rare incident. Actually I still have a few programs on my machines that insist to be on C, but not a single one of the type you mention.

Again, one of the objectives with how you set up and install a PC IMHO also is to make the person using it feel content & happy.  So I figure that there's not one single global method to properly handle things.

As to my method being complicated, that may appear so. But actually I don't experience any complications as soon as things are set up and timed & processed properly by Acronis in the background. 

One more thing: I'm often in a situation where I must find a document really quickly. With Copernic desktop this is quite easy, and even easier, since it's only one single 150 GB partition that has to be indexed, not the full 250 GB, or which I may search in case Copernic doesn't help (e.g. too many search results).

Regards
Tilman

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "The Computer Whisperer" <justin at whisperer.com.au>
To: "Tech Support Guy Mailing List" <list at tsgserver.com>
Sent: Friday, January 23, 2009 5:44 AM
Subject: Re: TSGL: Hard drive acting like a filling station


> Tilman,
> 
> Putting your swap file on a different physical drive will have performance
> advantages.
> 
> On a different partition on the same physical drive there is no perfomance
> advantage
> 
> I feel that if the user knows to put his/her documents in the mydocs or on
> desktop then selecting what gets backed up regularly isn't a big deal.
> 
> Perhaps mirror image when new programs have been installed. Backup documents
> more frequently.
> 
> I think the whole point of mirror imaging is so you don't have to install
> programs or customise the way things work. ie you just continue on your
> merry way without too much hassle.
> 
> Mirror imaging half of your Windows installation doesn't really make alot of
> sense
> 
> Imaging to a DVD is monotonous and time consuming, Hard drives are
> incredibly cheap thesedays. There are reliability issues with splitting the
> archive across multiple media too...
> 
> I think Tilman's method is overly complicated.
> 
> Have you ever installed a program on D drive and then gone to run it and
> because of the creator of the program's sloppy programming, it looks for the
> program on C drive? I have.
> 
> Regards,
> 
> Justin
> 
> 2009/1/23 Tilman Brandl <tbrandl2 at chello.at>
> 
>> Justin,
>>
>> the swapfile indeed could be a point here, but I don't think it is,
>> actually. Of course, my swapfile is on a different drive, because doing so
>> until recently was 'state of the art' and meant to speed up things (please,
>> let me know if this has changed). I would do this even with a 3rd person's
>> machine whether or not he/she is IT-savvy. Most people won't even notice
>> where that file sits ... With only a single HDD of course there's only the
>> option of putting it onto a different partition, which would still let you
>> make the system partition quite small.
>>
>> As to backing up whole (huge) images of drives/partitions, my method is
>> different. Personally, I'm feeling safe with frequent backups of my full
>> system (image) plus important data folders, regularly keeping about 3-4 of
>> them. Even these smaller (acronis) backups could fill up my 250 GB backup
>> drive rather quickly. Would I expand the scope of what I save (full images
>> e.g. of the 100 GB of data on my 'data' partition), the backup drive would
>> soon be full. But of course, this all can be managed in several different
>> ways, depending on personal preferences.
>>
>> > The entire process you use forces people to learn how to "manage" their
>> > system because of the restrictive theory behind what you are doing to
>> their
>> > machines.
>>
>> Re. the swapfile, I doubt that people will even notice if I move it off of
>> C:, no need to learn anything new here.
>>
>> In general though, I would like to repeat: I may look at things differently
>> with 3rd persons' machines, depending on how good they can handle things.
>>
>> Cheers
>> Tilman



From justin at whisperer.com.au  Sat Jan 24 07:39:12 2009
From: justin at whisperer.com.au (The Computer Whisperer)
Date: Sat, 24 Jan 2009 23:39:12 +1100
Subject: TSGL: Hard drive acting like a filling station
In-Reply-To: <001b01c97e1c$544630c0$0201a8c0@til4200>
References: <4.3.2.20090121093004.00c44b48@mail.tpg.com.au>
	<170C625A2ACE42C990FD4F591DC7ACE5@johnsp2>
	<2852b8d40901210504y635ee0bfh1579fad380871f14@mail.gmail.com>
	<0f4d01c97bdb$2dca80b0$0201a8c0@til4200>
	<2852b8d40901211805i232e6061l8176b6dd0b125e66@mail.gmail.com>
	<109a01c97c9a$bbb6ffb0$0201a8c0@til4200>
	<2852b8d40901222044v6c713dd4xabfded0523f4605a@mail.gmail.com>
	<001b01c97e1c$544630c0$0201a8c0@til4200>
Message-ID: <2852b8d40901240439g24283829nd3a3e67767511fb7@mail.gmail.com>

Tilman

Yeah, well. your point is valid... whatever works I suppose.

Again I iterate... Backing up your OS and not your programs too could
potentially be more time consuming, not to mention making sure you still
have your install disks collated and handy. Or even your registration email
with download link in some cases being that alot of people are buying
various software packages online thesedays, especially gamers.

I still think you are backing up half of your operating system as not
backing up your programs is like not uninstalling them and just deleting the
program's folder in the "program files" folder.

There will be leftovers in the registry and various leftover files in the
windows and system32 folders, which may potentially cause issues as some
programs when installing a new version require you to completely remove the
old version, such as Nero.

I mean if you are planning on reinstalling all of your programs anyway, then
why exclude them from your backup?

Also, a differential backup in Acronis does not take much time after you
have done the initial full backup anyway.

Sounds like a hassle, but like I said, whatever works for you.

Regards,

Justin

2009/1/24 Tilman Brandl <tbrandl2 at chello.at>

> Justin,
>
> let me add a few more remarks to this interesting discussion - just to
> clear up things. I can easily understand your points, or at least most of
> them, but ...
>
> > Mirror imaging half of your Windows installation doesn't really make alot
> of
> > sense
> I AM indeed imaging the WHOLE Windows installation on my (system) partition
> C: What I don't mirror FULLY is program installations (D:) and some 100 GB
> of personal data from E: (I don't backup e.g. lexica, reference books, GIS
> system etc.). My docs otoh get backed up selectively and frequently.
>
> My personal experience is, that when things go bad, it's the system on C:
> and only this. That much I've learned over a long time of working with my
> PCs.
>
> > Have you ever installed a program on D drive and then gone to run it and
> > because of the creator of the program's sloppy programming, it looks for
> the
> > program on C drive? I have.
> I guess this may indeed happen, but with the hundreds of programs that I
> must have installed over the last - let's say two - decades, this is a
> pretty rare incident. Actually I still have a few programs on my machines
> that insist to be on C, but not a single one of the type you mention.
>
> Again, one of the objectives with how you set up and install a PC IMHO also
> is to make the person using it feel content & happy.  So I figure that
> there's not one single global method to properly handle things.
>
> As to my method being complicated, that may appear so. But actually I don't
> experience any complications as soon as things are set up and timed &
> processed properly by Acronis in the background.
>
> One more thing: I'm often in a situation where I must find a document
> really quickly. With Copernic desktop this is quite easy, and even easier,
> since it's only one single 150 GB partition that has to be indexed, not the
> full 250 GB, or which I may search in case Copernic doesn't help (e.g. too
> many search results).
>
> Regards
> Tilman
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "The Computer Whisperer" <justin at whisperer.com.au>
> To: "Tech Support Guy Mailing List" <list at tsgserver.com>
> Sent: Friday, January 23, 2009 5:44 AM
> Subject: Re: TSGL: Hard drive acting like a filling station
>
>
> > Tilman,
> >
> > Putting your swap file on a different physical drive will have
> performance
> > advantages.
> >
> > On a different partition on the same physical drive there is no
> perfomance
> > advantage
> >
> > I feel that if the user knows to put his/her documents in the mydocs or
> on
> > desktop then selecting what gets backed up regularly isn't a big deal.
> >
> > Perhaps mirror image when new programs have been installed. Backup
> documents
> > more frequently.
> >
> > I think the whole point of mirror imaging is so you don't have to install
> > programs or customise the way things work. ie you just continue on your
> > merry way without too much hassle.
> >
> > Mirror imaging half of your Windows installation doesn't really make alot
> of
> > sense
> >
> > Imaging to a DVD is monotonous and time consuming, Hard drives are
> > incredibly cheap thesedays. There are reliability issues with splitting
> the
> > archive across multiple media too...
> >
> > I think Tilman's method is overly complicated.
> >
> > Have you ever installed a program on D drive and then gone to run it and
> > because of the creator of the program's sloppy programming, it looks for
> the
> > program on C drive? I have.
> >
> > Regards,
> >
> > Justin
> >
> > 2009/1/23 Tilman Brandl <tbrandl2 at chello.at>
> >
> >> Justin,
> >>
> >> the swapfile indeed could be a point here, but I don't think it is,
> >> actually. Of course, my swapfile is on a different drive, because doing
> so
> >> until recently was 'state of the art' and meant to speed up things
> (please,
> >> let me know if this has changed). I would do this even with a 3rd
> person's
> >> machine whether or not he/she is IT-savvy. Most people won't even notice
> >> where that file sits ... With only a single HDD of course there's only
> the
> >> option of putting it onto a different partition, which would still let
> you
> >> make the system partition quite small.
> >>
> >> As to backing up whole (huge) images of drives/partitions, my method is
> >> different. Personally, I'm feeling safe with frequent backups of my full
> >> system (image) plus important data folders, regularly keeping about 3-4
> of
> >> them. Even these smaller (acronis) backups could fill up my 250 GB
> backup
> >> drive rather quickly. Would I expand the scope of what I save (full
> images
> >> e.g. of the 100 GB of data on my 'data' partition), the backup drive
> would
> >> soon be full. But of course, this all can be managed in several
> different
> >> ways, depending on personal preferences.
> >>
> >> > The entire process you use forces people to learn how to "manage"
> their
> >> > system because of the restrictive theory behind what you are doing to
> >> their
> >> > machines.
> >>
> >> Re. the swapfile, I doubt that people will even notice if I move it off
> of
> >> C:, no need to learn anything new here.
> >>
> >> In general though, I would like to repeat: I may look at things
> differently
> >> with 3rd persons' machines, depending on how good they can handle
> things.
> >>
> >> Cheers
> >> Tilman
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Tech Support Guy Mailing List
> http://www.tsgserver.com/list/
>



-- 
http://www.whisperer.com.au

The Computer Whisperer - Gets you where you want to be.

Friendly on-site technical support - Home and Small Business Specialist.

Telephone: (03) 5979 1122
Mobile 0406 467 701

Servicing the Mornington Peninsula (Victoria, Australia)

From deepend at tpg.com.au  Sat Jan 24 11:34:49 2009
From: deepend at tpg.com.au (Don Penlington)
Date: Sun, 25 Jan 2009 02:34:49 +1000
Subject: TSGL: CPU overheating
In-Reply-To: <2852b8d40901211805i232e6061l8176b6dd0b125e66@mail.gmail.co
 m>
References: <0f4d01c97bdb$2dca80b0$0201a8c0@til4200>
	<4.3.2.20090121093004.00c44b48@mail.tpg.com.au>
	<170C625A2ACE42C990FD4F591DC7ACE5@johnsp2>
	<2852b8d40901210504y635ee0bfh1579fad380871f14@mail.gmail.com>
	<0f4d01c97bdb$2dca80b0$0201a8c0@til4200>
Message-ID: <4.3.2.20090125020722.00c587c8@mail.tpg.com.au>


>I'm working on a 6-month old computer AMD dual-core in which the CPU is 
>overheating causing a power-off at 70c.


It will run all day at a normal 48c but as soon as it is under around 50% 
load,--eg running a Spybot scan---the heat quickly starts rising and 
poweroff cuts in after about 2 minutes.

I can't see anywhere in the bios where I can raise the cutout temp, and I'm 
not sure that is a good idea anyway.

The problem seems to have started when the owner had a power surge in her 
house 2 months ago, due to welding in the street outside. The surge 
apparently blew out her microwave and phone.

She says the computer was off at the time, though plugged into the 
wall.  She has now bought a UPS---too late, I suspect.

I've installed Speedfan so that she can monitor the behavior better.

First question:

Can a CPU or mobo be partly damaged so that it's OK under light load, but 
overheats under medium to heavy load?  She says it cuts out sometimes when 
she's been using Word for a while.

To compound the problem, she has a ADSL wireless modem supplied by Bigpond, 
our leading Telco here in Australia.

This modem is the large type that plugs direct into the mains power.

I'm told on reasonably good authority that this type of modem is bad news, 
and can feed minor power surges into the computer via the phone line 
sufficient to blow the cpu.

Second question:
  Is this likely? Has anyone experienced problems caused by this type of 
powered modem blowing a cpu or mobo?
The computer seems a little less stable when the modem is connected.

Third question:
Would the UPS protect against this sort of damage? I'm told not, as it 
won't protect against minor surges coming into the computer via this type 
of powered modem.

She lives on the top of a hill, so I suppose local lightning strikes must 
also be a possibility in this semi-tropical climate.

I pulled the power lead where it plugs into the mobo from the power supply, 
and we noticed that one of the pins seems very slightly 
discolored---evidence of a power surge perhaps? It wasn't actually black, 
and there was no smell of burning---we wouldn't have noticed it if we 
weren't looking hard. I couldn't see any other evidence of harm in the mobo.

Don Penlington







From hasanatkhan at gmail.com  Sat Jan 24 13:06:50 2009
From: hasanatkhan at gmail.com (A Hasanat Khan)
Date: Sun, 25 Jan 2009 00:06:50 +0600
Subject: TSGL: {Disarmed} Re:  CPU overheating
References: <0f4d01c97bdb$2dca80b0$0201a8c0@til4200><4.3.2.20090121093004.00c44b48@mail.tpg.com.au><170C625A2ACE42C990FD4F591DC7ACE5@johnsp2><2852b8d40901210504y635ee0bfh1579fad380871f14@mail.gmail.com><0f4d01c97bdb$2dca80b0$0201a8c0@til4200>
	<4.3.2.20090125020722.00c587c8@mail.tpg.com.au>
Message-ID: <198CE8C14C014C7CB9586A89F7E6BF4F@micron>

I shall try and answer some of the questions, as an electrical engineer.

First.  It is extremely unlikely that a power surge will affect the CPU or 
the mobo. These work on DC, and the current has to go through a transformer 
and rectifiers. These will be blown out first.  The power supply will go. 
Check the voltages with speedfan.
Second. I have no experience on the modem.
Third, a good UPS will protect against power surges. It will have 
overvoltage protection. But this will only protect the power supply, which 
is directly connected to the UPS. To protect the modem the telephone line 
will have to pass through a surge protector, which is usually provided in an 
UPS.

There must be another reason for the cpu overheating.


Hasanat


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Don Penlington" <deepend at tpg.com.au>
To: "Tech Support Guy Mailing List" <list at tsgserver.com>
Sent: 24/01/2009 10:34 PM
Subject: Re: TSGL: CPU overheating


>
>>I'm working on a 6-month old computer AMD dual-core in which the CPU is 
>>overheating causing a power-off at 70c.
>
>
> It will run all day at a normal 48c but as soon as it is under around 50% 
> load,--eg running a Spybot scan---the heat quickly starts rising and 
> poweroff cuts in after about 2 minutes.
>
> I can't see anywhere in the bios where I can raise the cutout temp, and 
> I'm not sure that is a good idea anyway.
>
> The problem seems to have started when the owner had a power surge in her 
> house 2 months ago, due to welding in the street outside. The surge 
> apparently blew out her microwave and phone.
>
> She says the computer was off at the time, though plugged into the wall. 
> She has now bought a UPS---too late, I suspect.
>
> I've installed Speedfan so that she can monitor the behavior better.
>
> First question:
>
> Can a CPU or mobo be partly damaged so that it's OK under light load, but 
> overheats under medium to heavy load?  She says it cuts out sometimes when 
> she's been using Word for a while.
>
> To compound the problem, she has a ADSL wireless modem supplied by 
> Bigpond, our leading Telco here in Australia.
>
> This modem is the large type that plugs direct into the mains power.
>
> I'm told on reasonably good authority that this type of modem is bad news, 
> and can feed minor power surges into the computer via the phone line 
> sufficient to blow the cpu.
>
> Second question:
>  Is this likely? Has anyone experienced problems caused by this type of 
> powered modem blowing a cpu or mobo?
> The computer seems a little less stable when the modem is connected.
>
> Third question:
> Would the UPS protect against this sort of damage? I'm told not, as it 
> won't protect against minor surges coming into the computer via this type 
> of powered modem.
>
> She lives on the top of a hill, so I suppose local lightning strikes must 
> also be a possibility in this semi-tropical climate.
>
> I pulled the power lead where it plugs into the mobo from the power 
> supply, and we noticed that one of the pins seems very slightly 
> discolored---evidence of a power surge perhaps? It wasn't actually black, 
> and there was no smell of burning---we wouldn't have noticed it if we 
> weren't looking hard. I couldn't see any other evidence of harm in the 
> mobo.
>
> Don Penlington
>
>
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Tech Support Guy Mailing List
> http://www.tsgserver.com/list/
>
> -- 
> This message has been scanned for viruses and
> dangerous content by MailScanner, and is
> believed to be clean.
>
> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus 
> signature database 3796 (20090124) __________
>
> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus.
>
>    part000.txt - is OK
>
> http://www.eset.com
>
>
> 


-- 
This message has been scanned for viruses and
dangerous content by MailScanner, and is
believed to be clean.


From hdavis1 at gmail.com  Sat Jan 24 15:01:44 2009
From: hdavis1 at gmail.com (H Davis)
Date: Sat, 24 Jan 2009 15:01:44 -0500
Subject: TSGL: {Disarmed} Re:  CPU overheating
In-Reply-To: <198CE8C14C014C7CB9586A89F7E6BF4F@micron>
References: <0f4d01c97bdb$2dca80b0$0201a8c0@til4200><4.3.2.20090121093004.00c44b48@mail.tpg.com.au><170C625A2ACE42C990FD4F591DC7ACE5@johnsp2><2852b8d40901210504y635ee0bfh1579fad380871f14@mail.gmail.com><0f4d01c97bdb$2dca80b0$0201a8c0@til4200>	<4.3.2.20090125020722.00c587c8@mail.tpg.com.au>
	<198CE8C14C014C7CB9586A89F7E6BF4F@micron>
Message-ID: <497B73A8.5070102@gmail.com>

Hi Don,

Another EE here. I agree with Hasanat. If it's running at all there is 
probably nothing "blown out" by a surge. I would plug the modem and the 
CPU into the protected outlets (there are usually some protected and 
others not protected) of the UPS and route the incoming phone line 
through the surge protected ports for the phone line on the UPS as 
Hasanat suggests.

Your description seems to indicate some sort of run away situation; like 
the cooling systems can keep up with the situation until a certain 
point. At that point things seem to go bad fast. This might indicate 
that not only is the heat load increasing but the cooling is decreasing 
for some reason. Do all the fans, case, power supply, CPU, continue to 
run and even speed up as the heat load increases? Is there anything 
loose that might get sucked in front of an air inlet as the air flow 
increases (I'm really stretching here)?

More stretching; is it possible that the temperature sensor is bad? Do 
you have any other way to measure the CPU temperature? If the sensor is 
bad and reports a high temp to the power supply it would shut down even 
though it's not really that hot.

I found this info about Core 2 duo temperatures at:
http://www.tomshardware.com/forum/221745-29-core-quad-temperature-guide. 
Tcase is the case temp. The 2 temps under Tjunction are the temps (deg 
C) of the individual processors in the case. On the page Safe is shown 
in green; Warm in yellow; and Hot in red.

-Tcase/Tjunction-
--70--/--75--75-- Hot
--65--/--70--70-- Warm
--60--/--65--65-- Safe
--25--/--30--30-- Cool

The thing that intrigues me is that it get so hot. My machine won't go 
over about 42 deg C no matter how hard I drive it. Seventy five is way 
past where it should be and it seems to get there quickly. There should 
be a reasonably linear relationship between processing load and 
temperature which you're not seeing. Either something is generating a 
_lot_ more heat as the load increases or the cooling is being reduced 
for some reason.

If the machine is only 6 months old it might still be under warranty.  
Maybe you can get some help from the manufacturer.

HTH

H Davis

A Hasanat Khan wrote:
> I shall try and answer some of the questions, as an electrical engineer.
>
> First.  It is extremely unlikely that a power surge will affect the 
> CPU or the mobo. These work on DC, and the current has to go through a 
> transformer and rectifiers. These will be blown out first.  The power 
> supply will go. Check the voltages with speedfan.
> Second. I have no experience on the modem.
> Third, a good UPS will protect against power surges. It will have 
> overvoltage protection. But this will only protect the power supply, 
> which is directly connected to the UPS. To protect the modem the 
> telephone line will have to pass through a surge protector, which is 
> usually provided in an UPS.
>
> There must be another reason for the cpu overheating.
>
>
> Hasanat
>
>
> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Don Penlington" <deepend at tpg.com.au>
> To: "Tech Support Guy Mailing List" <list at tsgserver.com>
> Sent: 24/01/2009 10:34 PM
> Subject: Re: TSGL: CPU overheating
>
>
>>
>>> I'm working on a 6-month old computer AMD dual-core in which the CPU 
>>> is overheating causing a power-off at 70c.
>>
>>
>> It will run all day at a normal 48c but as soon as it is under around 
>> 50% load,--eg running a Spybot scan---the heat quickly starts rising 
>> and poweroff cuts in after about 2 minutes.
>>
>> I can't see anywhere in the bios where I can raise the cutout temp, 
>> and I'm not sure that is a good idea anyway.
>>
>> The problem seems to have started when the owner had a power surge in 
>> her house 2 months ago, due to welding in the street outside. The 
>> surge apparently blew out her microwave and phone.
>>
>> She says the computer was off at the time, though plugged into the 
>> wall. She has now bought a UPS---too late, I suspect.
>>
>> I've installed Speedfan so that she can monitor the behavior better.
>>
>> First question:
>>
>> Can a CPU or mobo be partly damaged so that it's OK under light load, 
>> but overheats under medium to heavy load?  She says it cuts out 
>> sometimes when she's been using Word for a while.
>>
>> To compound the problem, she has a ADSL wireless modem supplied by 
>> Bigpond, our leading Telco here in Australia.
>>
>> This modem is the large type that plugs direct into the mains power.
>>
>> I'm told on reasonably good authority that this type of modem is bad 
>> news, and can feed minor power surges into the computer via the phone 
>> line sufficient to blow the cpu.
>>
>> Second question:
>>  Is this likely? Has anyone experienced problems caused by this type 
>> of powered modem blowing a cpu or mobo?
>> The computer seems a little less stable when the modem is connected.
>>
>> Third question:
>> Would the UPS protect against this sort of damage? I'm told not, as 
>> it won't protect against minor surges coming into the computer via 
>> this type of powered modem.
>>
>> She lives on the top of a hill, so I suppose local lightning strikes 
>> must also be a possibility in this semi-tropical climate.
>>
>> I pulled the power lead where it plugs into the mobo from the power 
>> supply, and we noticed that one of the pins seems very slightly 
>> discolored---evidence of a power surge perhaps? It wasn't actually 
>> black, and there was no smell of burning---we wouldn't have noticed 
>> it if we weren't looking hard. I couldn't see any other evidence of 
>> harm in the mobo.
>>
>> Don Penlington
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Tech Support Guy Mailing List
>> http://www.tsgserver.com/list/
>>
>> -- 
>> This message has been scanned for viruses and
>> dangerous content by MailScanner, and is
>> believed to be clean.
>>
>> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus 
>> signature database 3796 (20090124) __________
>>
>> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus.
>>
>>    part000.txt - is OK
>>
>> http://www.eset.com
>>
>>
>>
>
>

-- 
H Davis   hdavis1 at gmail.com


From justin at whisperer.com.au  Sat Jan 24 18:31:44 2009
From: justin at whisperer.com.au (The Computer Whisperer)
Date: Sun, 25 Jan 2009 10:31:44 +1100
Subject: TSGL: CPU overheating
In-Reply-To: <4.3.2.20090125020722.00c587c8@mail.tpg.com.au>
References: <4.3.2.20090121093004.00c44b48@mail.tpg.com.au>
	<170C625A2ACE42C990FD4F591DC7ACE5@johnsp2>
	<2852b8d40901210504y635ee0bfh1579fad380871f14@mail.gmail.com>
	<0f4d01c97bdb$2dca80b0$0201a8c0@til4200>
	<4.3.2.20090125020722.00c587c8@mail.tpg.com.au>
Message-ID: <2852b8d40901241531t495eb597t153c0d23e23093d4@mail.gmail.com>

I see this thread has split into 2 threads....


Could the fan for the CPU be plugged into a "system fan" plug instead of a
"CPU Fan" plug on the main board?

Perhaps this is preventing the fan from ramping up to a higher speed when
the CPU heats.

Generally overheating issues I find are caused by a layer of dust between
the fan and heatsink, but being that it's only 6 months old it's unlikely.

My understanding of UPS' is that they do protect against some pretty major
power fluctuations.


Justin

2009/1/25 Don Penlington <deepend at tpg.com.au>

>
>  I'm working on a 6-month old computer AMD dual-core in which the CPU is
>> overheating causing a power-off at 70c.
>>
>
>
> It will run all day at a normal 48c but as soon as it is under around 50%
> load,--eg running a Spybot scan---the heat quickly starts rising and
> poweroff cuts in after about 2 minutes.
>
> I can't see anywhere in the bios where I can raise the cutout temp, and I'm
> not sure that is a good idea anyway.
>
> The problem seems to have started when the owner had a power surge in her
> house 2 months ago, due to welding in the street outside. The surge
> apparently blew out her microwave and phone.
>
> She says the computer was off at the time, though plugged into the wall.
>  She has now bought a UPS---too late, I suspect.
>
> I've installed Speedfan so that she can monitor the behavior better.
>
> First question:
>
> Can a CPU or mobo be partly damaged so that it's OK under light load, but
> overheats under medium to heavy load?  She says it cuts out sometimes when
> she's been using Word for a while.
>
> To compound the problem, she has a ADSL wireless modem supplied by Bigpond,
> our leading Telco here in Australia.
>
> This modem is the large type that plugs direct into the mains power.
>
> I'm told on reasonably good authority that this type of modem is bad news,
> and can feed minor power surges into the computer via the phone line
> sufficient to blow the cpu.
>
> Second question:
>  Is this likely? Has anyone experienced problems caused by this type of
> powered modem blowing a cpu or mobo?
> The computer seems a little less stable when the modem is connected.
>
> Third question:
> Would the UPS protect against this sort of damage? I'm told not, as it
> won't protect against minor surges coming into the computer via this type of
> powered modem.
>
> She lives on the top of a hill, so I suppose local lightning strikes must
> also be a possibility in this semi-tropical climate.
>
> I pulled the power lead where it plugs into the mobo from the power supply,
> and we noticed that one of the pins seems very slightly
> discolored---evidence of a power surge perhaps? It wasn't actually black,
> and there was no smell of burning---we wouldn't have noticed it if we
> weren't looking hard. I couldn't see any other evidence of harm in the mobo.
>
> Don Penlington
>
>
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Tech Support Guy Mailing List
> http://www.tsgserver.com/list/
>



-- 
http://www.whisperer.com.au

The Computer Whisperer - Gets you where you want to be.

Friendly on-site technical support - Home and Small Business Specialist.

Telephone: (03) 5979 1122
Mobile 0406 467 701

Servicing the Mornington Peninsula (Victoria, Australia)

From deepend at tpg.com.au  Sat Jan 24 21:22:52 2009
From: deepend at tpg.com.au (Don Penlington)
Date: Sun, 25 Jan 2009 12:22:52 +1000
Subject: TSGL: CPU overheating
In-Reply-To: <2852b8d40901241531t495eb597t153c0d23e23093d4@mail.gmail.co
 m>
References: <4.3.2.20090125020722.00c587c8@mail.tpg.com.au>
	<4.3.2.20090121093004.00c44b48@mail.tpg.com.au>
	<170C625A2ACE42C990FD4F591DC7ACE5@johnsp2>
	<2852b8d40901210504y635ee0bfh1579fad380871f14@mail.gmail.com>
	<0f4d01c97bdb$2dca80b0$0201a8c0@til4200>
	<4.3.2.20090125020722.00c587c8@mail.tpg.com.au>
Message-ID: <4.3.2.20090125121618.00c5a4f8@mail.tpg.com.au>

Justin wrote:
>caused by a layer of dust...>>


It all looks very new and clean inside.

<<Could the fan for the CPU be plugged into a "system fan" plug instead of a
"CPU Fan" plug on the main board?>>

I doubt it. The guy who built it is a very experienced IT technician 
running his own shop. He thinks that whilst the UPS protects against major 
surges, as you say, it may not protect against minor surges coming in via 
the modem, which could nevertheless be enough to partly fry the CPU.

I would have thought that a CPU is either 100% OK, or completely kaput. Is 
it possible for one to suffer "partial" damage but still work only under 
light load?

Don Penlington




From deepend at tpg.com.au  Sat Jan 24 23:48:16 2009
From: deepend at tpg.com.au (Don Penlington)
Date: Sun, 25 Jan 2009 14:48:16 +1000
Subject: TSGL: CPU overheating
In-Reply-To: <497B73A8.5070102@gmail.com>
References: <198CE8C14C014C7CB9586A89F7E6BF4F@micron>
	<0f4d01c97bdb$2dca80b0$0201a8c0@til4200>
	<4.3.2.20090121093004.00c44b48@mail.tpg.com.au>
	<170C625A2ACE42C990FD4F591DC7ACE5@johnsp2>
	<2852b8d40901210504y635ee0bfh1579fad380871f14@mail.gmail.com>
	<0f4d01c97bdb$2dca80b0$0201a8c0@til4200>
	<4.3.2.20090125020722.00c587c8@mail.tpg.com.au>
	<198CE8C14C014C7CB9586A89F7E6BF4F@micron>
Message-ID: <4.3.2.20090125131054.00c61fb0@mail.tpg.com.au>

H Davis wrote:
>Do all the fans, case, power supply, CPU, continue to run and even speed 
>up as the heat load increases? Is there anything loose that might get 
>sucked in front of an air inlet as the air flow increases (I'm really 
>stretching here)?>>


I'm running it with sides off and copious air blowing in from a desk fan. 
All looks and sounds normal inside. I added a new case fan but that made no 
difference.

When under 50% cpu load such as Spybot scan, it takes about 3 minutes to go 
from idle 47-48c to 70c.

<<is it possible that the temperature sensor is bad?>>

No. The cpu heatsink/fan feels almost too hot to touch when it gets to 70.

More curiosity-----I booted into the bios from a cold state. After about 
2-3 minutes, power cut out.

Booting again into bios, and this time watching the "health" temperature 
readouts, showed that temp steadily increases to 75c when it cuts out. I 
wouldn't have thought that just running the bios by itself would load the 
cpu much.  Yet with XP running and working lightly, temperature remains 
around 47-48------and that's on a hot day of 32.

Is that telling us anything?

Looking at voltages in Speedfan all looks about normal.

<<If the machine is only 6 months old it might still be under warranty.  >>

It is. But only for manufacturing defects, not against damage caused by 
possible power surge.

Hasanat Khan writes:

<<The power supply will go. Check the voltages with speedfan.>>

Do you both think we'd be better replacing the power supply box first, 
rather than the cpu?  Could a faulty power supply cause these symptoms?  I 
have my doubts, though I suppose anything's possible.  I don't have a spare 
ps to substitute, though a new one's only about $35.

Thanks for your help so far, guys.

Don Penlington




From mikec at pcug.org.au  Sun Jan 25 00:14:35 2009
From: mikec at pcug.org.au (Mike Cassidy)
Date: Sun, 25 Jan 2009 16:14:35 +1100
Subject: TSGL: CPU overheating
In-Reply-To: <4.3.2.20090125131054.00c61fb0@mail.tpg.com.au>
Message-ID: <LPBBIMBEGNOAFIECDFFHKEELEIAA.mikec@pcug.org.au>

Hi Don,

As I think has been said before, I wouldn't be putting this down to "damage
caused by possible power surge". I never run without surge protection;
however, I have never found a surge only partly damage any component.

Has the thermal paste failed; something is preventing the cooling "system"
from operating correctly or the CPU operating within specifications. Has the
CPU been over-clocked?

I would definitely be putting the onus on the supplier to resolve the
overheating of a system after such a short period of use. This sounds very
much like a case of "not fit for purpose" of sale. If your supplier is
reluctant to help, I'd talk to Consumer Affairs or Fair Trading.

HTH
MikeC



From justin at whisperer.com.au  Sun Jan 25 01:54:52 2009
From: justin at whisperer.com.au (The Computer Whisperer)
Date: Sun, 25 Jan 2009 17:54:52 +1100
Subject: TSGL: CPU overheating
In-Reply-To: <4.3.2.20090125121618.00c5a4f8@mail.tpg.com.au>
References: <4.3.2.20090121093004.00c44b48@mail.tpg.com.au>
	<170C625A2ACE42C990FD4F591DC7ACE5@johnsp2>
	<2852b8d40901210504y635ee0bfh1579fad380871f14@mail.gmail.com>
	<0f4d01c97bdb$2dca80b0$0201a8c0@til4200>
	<4.3.2.20090125020722.00c587c8@mail.tpg.com.au>
	<4.3.2.20090125121618.00c5a4f8@mail.tpg.com.au>
Message-ID: <2852b8d40901242254l1530256dxb731bfc07b915197@mail.gmail.com>

I kinda agree with Mike, Don, you can get a surge from the telephone line,
the UPS' usually facilitate protection for telephone lines too... you plug
the telephone line through it and then to the ADSL modem.

Regards,

Justin

2009/1/25 Don Penlington <deepend at tpg.com.au>

> Justin wrote:
>
>> caused by a layer of dust...>>
>>
>
>
> It all looks very new and clean inside.
>
> <<Could the fan for the CPU be plugged into a "system fan" plug instead of
> a
> "CPU Fan" plug on the main board?>>
>
> I doubt it. The guy who built it is a very experienced IT technician
> running his own shop. He thinks that whilst the UPS protects against major
> surges, as you say, it may not protect against minor surges coming in via
> the modem, which could nevertheless be enough to partly fry the CPU.
>
> I would have thought that a CPU is either 100% OK, or completely kaput. Is
> it possible for one to suffer "partial" damage but still work only under
> light load?
>
>
> Don Penlington
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Tech Support Guy Mailing List
> http://www.tsgserver.com/list/
>



-- 
http://www.whisperer.com.au

The Computer Whisperer - Gets you where you want to be.

Friendly on-site technical support - Home and Small Business Specialist.

Telephone: (03) 5979 1122
Mobile 0406 467 701

Servicing the Mornington Peninsula (Victoria, Australia)

From deepend at tpg.com.au  Sun Jan 25 08:24:15 2009
From: deepend at tpg.com.au (Don Penlington)
Date: Sun, 25 Jan 2009 23:24:15 +1000
Subject: TSGL: CPU overheating
In-Reply-To: <LPBBIMBEGNOAFIECDFFHKEELEIAA.mikec@pcug.org.au>
References: <4.3.2.20090125131054.00c61fb0@mail.tpg.com.au>
Message-ID: <4.3.2.20090125230803.00c70c00@mail.tpg.com.au>

Mike wrote:
>Has the thermal paste failed; something is preventing the cooling "system"
>from operating correctly or the CPU operating within specifications. Has the
>CPU been over-clocked?>>


No. The warranty claim would be tricky, as the shop claims the damage must 
be due to the power surge she had 2 months ago. That's when the problem 
started. (Since then, she's bought a UPS, but of course too late). And he 
claims that the modem is the type which can and will allow damage to the CPU.

The strangest thing is that I can leave the computer on, with Ms Office and 
other progs open, all day and temp never goes above 47. The owner says that 
occasionally when she's been using Word for a couple of hours, power may 
cut out. Other times, it's OK for several days. Go figure!

But every time I boot into bios and just leave it there, temp rises to 70+ 
in 2 minutes.

Can we explain that??? Doesn't sound like a thermal paste problem to me. It 
must be telling us something. Does the bios live in the mobo? Does bios 
stop once Xp starts loading? If so, do we have mobo damage?

I just tried burning a data CD, and temp never moved above 48.

Don Penlington




From justin at whisperer.com.au  Sun Jan 25 08:51:27 2009
From: justin at whisperer.com.au (The Computer Whisperer)
Date: Mon, 26 Jan 2009 00:51:27 +1100
Subject: TSGL: CPU overheating
In-Reply-To: <4.3.2.20090125230803.00c70c00@mail.tpg.com.au>
References: <4.3.2.20090125131054.00c61fb0@mail.tpg.com.au>
	<LPBBIMBEGNOAFIECDFFHKEELEIAA.mikec@pcug.org.au>
	<4.3.2.20090125230803.00c70c00@mail.tpg.com.au>
Message-ID: <2852b8d40901250551k35570a68h2d639300a8ba5e62@mail.gmail.com>

Tell the supplier that you don't know what part of the computer is causing
it and that you think it might be motherboard or CPU related. They can't
prove it was a power surge.

Don't tell them about the temperature problem.

Just say it switches off at random and you have tried using different RAM
already.

They will warranty it.

They can't prove the cause

Justin

2009/1/26 Don Penlington <deepend at tpg.com.au>

> Mike wrote:
>
>> Has the thermal paste failed; something is preventing the cooling "system"
>> from operating correctly or the CPU operating within specifications. Has
>> the
>> CPU been over-clocked?>>
>>
>
>
> No. The warranty claim would be tricky, as the shop claims the damage must
> be due to the power surge she had 2 months ago. That's when the problem
> started. (Since then, she's bought a UPS, but of course too late). And he
> claims that the modem is the type which can and will allow damage to the
> CPU.
>
> The strangest thing is that I can leave the computer on, with Ms Office and
> other progs open, all day and temp never goes above 47. The owner says that
> occasionally when she's been using Word for a couple of hours, power may cut
> out. Other times, it's OK for several days. Go figure!
>
> But every time I boot into bios and just leave it there, temp rises to 70+
> in 2 minutes.
>
> Can we explain that??? Doesn't sound like a thermal paste problem to me. It
> must be telling us something. Does the bios live in the mobo? Does bios stop
> once Xp starts loading? If so, do we have mobo damage?
>
> I just tried burning a data CD, and temp never moved above 48.
>
> Don Penlington
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Tech Support Guy Mailing List
> http://www.tsgserver.com/list/
>



-- 
http://www.whisperer.com.au

The Computer Whisperer - Gets you where you want to be.

Friendly on-site technical support - Home and Small Business Specialist.

Telephone: (03) 5979 1122
Mobile 0406 467 701

Servicing the Mornington Peninsula (Victoria, Australia)

From jonpan at onlinehome.de  Sun Jan 25 09:08:18 2009
From: jonpan at onlinehome.de (Jon)
Date: Sun, 25 Jan 2009 15:08:18 +0100
Subject: TSGL: CPU overheating
References: <4.3.2.20090125131054.00c61fb0@mail.tpg.com.au>
	<4.3.2.20090125230803.00c70c00@mail.tpg.com.au>
Message-ID: <5258CCE2B73749FBAADF335307DE3BA8@johnsp2>

Tried re-setting the BIOS from mobo?
Tried setting the BIOS values to default?
Worth trying a new BIOS chip? Might even be pluggable!

John
Od/G


----- Original Message ----- 
From: Don Penlington 
To: Tech Support Guy Mailing List 
Sent: Sunday, January 25, 2009 2:24 PM
Subject: Re: TSGL: CPU overheating


Mike wrote:
>Has the thermal paste failed; something is preventing the cooling "system"
>from operating correctly or the CPU operating within specifications. Has the
>CPU been over-clocked?>>


No. The warranty claim would be tricky, as the shop claims the damage must 
be due to the power surge she had 2 months ago. That's when the problem 
started. (Since then, she's bought a UPS, but of course too late). And he 
claims that the modem is the type which can and will allow damage to the CPU.

The strangest thing is that I can leave the computer on, with Ms Office and 
other progs open, all day and temp never goes above 47. The owner says that 
occasionally when she's been using Word for a couple of hours, power may 
cut out. Other times, it's OK for several days. Go figure!

But every time I boot into bios and just leave it there, temp rises to 70+ 
in 2 minutes.

Can we explain that??? Doesn't sound like a thermal paste problem to me. It 
must be telling us something. Does the bios live in the mobo? Does bios 
stop once Xp starts loading? If so, do we have mobo damage?

I just tried burning a data CD, and temp never moved above 48.

Don Penlington



_______________________________________________
Tech Support Guy Mailing List
http://www.tsgserver.com/list/

From deepend at tpg.com.au  Mon Jan 26 13:14:43 2009
From: deepend at tpg.com.au (Don Penlington)
Date: Tue, 27 Jan 2009 04:14:43 +1000
Subject: TSGL: CPU overheating
In-Reply-To: <5258CCE2B73749FBAADF335307DE3BA8@johnsp2>
References: <4.3.2.20090125131054.00c61fb0@mail.tpg.com.au>
	<4.3.2.20090125230803.00c70c00@mail.tpg.com.au>
Message-ID: <4.3.2.20090127035312.00c63698@mail.tpg.com.au>

John wrote:
>Tried re-setting the BIOS from mobo?>>


Yes, by removing the battery for 5 minutes.

<<Tried setting the BIOS values to default?>>

Yes.

<<Worth trying a new BIOS chip? >>

Is that possible on a dual-core 64-bit AMD Asus mobo? I suspect it might be 
major surgery, I don't even know where the chip lives. Good thought, but I 
don't relish the prospect. There's a black gizmo about an inch square 
labelled "Asus" with heatsink fins which looks like it screws into the 
mobo. There's a small label on the mobo beside it which says 
"heatsink".  Would that be the mobo chip? Are they easy to refit? Does it 
need thermal paste?  It feels hotter than the cpu heatsink.

Could a faulty mobo chip cause the cpu to overheat?

Don Penlington




From justin at whisperer.com.au  Tue Jan 27 01:59:02 2009
From: justin at whisperer.com.au (The Computer Whisperer)
Date: Tue, 27 Jan 2009 17:59:02 +1100
Subject: TSGL: CPU overheating
In-Reply-To: <4.3.2.20090127035312.00c63698@mail.tpg.com.au>
References: <4.3.2.20090125131054.00c61fb0@mail.tpg.com.au>
	<4.3.2.20090125230803.00c70c00@mail.tpg.com.au>
	<5258CCE2B73749FBAADF335307DE3BA8@johnsp2>
	<4.3.2.20090127035312.00c63698@mail.tpg.com.au>
Message-ID: <2852b8d40901262259k7c986c70q7cae98ac980fa774@mail.gmail.com>

... And where do you get a replacement EEPROM from? and how do you flash it
again if it's blank?

You'll break your computer if you try, trust me.

Take it back under warranty...  you'll regret it if you don't

Regards,

Justin

2009/1/27 Don Penlington <deepend at tpg.com.au>

> John wrote:
>
>> Tried re-setting the BIOS from mobo?>>
>>
>
>
> Yes, by removing the battery for 5 minutes.
>
> <<Tried setting the BIOS values to default?>>
>
> Yes.
>
> <<Worth trying a new BIOS chip? >>
>
> Is that possible on a dual-core 64-bit AMD Asus mobo? I suspect it might be
> major surgery, I don't even know where the chip lives. Good thought, but I
> don't relish the prospect. There's a black gizmo about an inch square
> labelled "Asus" with heatsink fins which looks like it screws into the mobo.
> There's a small label on the mobo beside it which says "heatsink".  Would
> that be the mobo chip? Are they easy to refit? Does it need thermal paste?
>  It feels hotter than the cpu heatsink.
>
> Could a faulty mobo chip cause the cpu to overheat?
>
>
> Don Penlington
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Tech Support Guy Mailing List
> http://www.tsgserver.com/list/
>



-- 
http://www.whisperer.com.au

The Computer Whisperer - Gets you where you want to be.

Friendly on-site technical support - Home and Small Business Specialist.

Telephone: (03) 5979 1122
Mobile 0406 467 701

Servicing the Mornington Peninsula (Victoria, Australia)

From deepend at tpg.com.au  Tue Jan 27 09:49:28 2009
From: deepend at tpg.com.au (Don Penlington)
Date: Wed, 28 Jan 2009 00:49:28 +1000
Subject: TSGL: CPU overheating
In-Reply-To: <2852b8d40901262259k7c986c70q7cae98ac980fa774@mail.gmail.co
 m>
References: <4.3.2.20090127035312.00c63698@mail.tpg.com.au>
	<4.3.2.20090125131054.00c61fb0@mail.tpg.com.au>
	<4.3.2.20090125230803.00c70c00@mail.tpg.com.au>
	<5258CCE2B73749FBAADF335307DE3BA8@johnsp2>
	<4.3.2.20090127035312.00c63698@mail.tpg.com.au>
Message-ID: <4.3.2.20090128002254.00c661d0@mail.tpg.com.au>

Justin wrote:
>Take it back under warranty...  you'll regret it if you don't>>


Good thought---but they won't cover it, She's already been back to the shop.

They know about the power surge---it took out 2 phones and her microwave 
(Council was welding in the street outside and there was a "big bang"). 
Luckily, the computer wasn't running at the time.

They sold her a UPS in case it happens again. Also, she lives on top of a 
hill in a storm-prone area, so the UPS is a good idea.

She might have a claim against City Council or possibly under her contents 
insurance---but not worth the hassle.

I've had the machine home here for last 3 days and it seems OK for the 
light work she does---she won't be into video editing etc, so she'll learn 
to live with it and just keep an eye on Speedfan.

She's going to run it for 2 weeks without the Telstra modem connected and 
see if it's OK. Then connect the modem and see if that causes any problems.

(An aside---I never saw a more useless manual in all my life than the one 
which came with the Taiwanese-made UPS. Even the stylized connection 
diagrams bear no resemblance whatsoever to the actual machine. I thought it 
was the wrong manual, but the model numbers match.  eg: "The warranty does 
not match the pleasure of your printer connecting". I THINK they mean: 
"Don't connect the printer to the UPS". Looks like it's been through 
several translation machines!)

Don Penlington




From hdavis1 at gmail.com  Tue Jan 27 22:37:49 2009
From: hdavis1 at gmail.com (H Davis)
Date: Tue, 27 Jan 2009 22:37:49 -0500
Subject: TSGL: CPU overheating
In-Reply-To: <4.3.2.20090128002254.00c661d0@mail.tpg.com.au>
References: <4.3.2.20090127035312.00c63698@mail.tpg.com.au>	<4.3.2.20090125131054.00c61fb0@mail.tpg.com.au>	<4.3.2.20090125230803.00c70c00@mail.tpg.com.au>	<5258CCE2B73749FBAADF335307DE3BA8@johnsp2>	<4.3.2.20090127035312.00c63698@mail.tpg.com.au>
	<4.3.2.20090128002254.00c661d0@mail.tpg.com.au>
Message-ID: <497FD30D.3080407@gmail.com>

Hi Don,

I don't think it pays to buy a cheap UPS. No matter what UPS you buy 
even if it has some humongous energy rating in bazillions of joules for 
sucking up spikes, there's always a spike around that's bigger than your 
UPS is rated for.

One of the most important features of any UPS is the warranty. What will 
the company do if your equipment is damaged even if it's plugged into 
the UPS. The big names offer specific dollar amounts of coverage which 
increase with the surge suppression rating (in joules) of the UPS. So 
you're actually buying an insurance policy with your UPS and because of 
this the ability and willingness of the company to perform in the event 
of a claim is very important.

H Davis

Don Penlington wrote:
> Justin wrote:
>> Take it back under warranty...  you'll regret it if you don't>>
>
>
> Good thought---but they won't cover it, She's already been back to the 
> shop.
>
> They know about the power surge---it took out 2 phones and her 
> microwave (Council was welding in the street outside and there was a 
> "big bang"). Luckily, the computer wasn't running at the time.
>
> They sold her a UPS in case it happens again. Also, she lives on top 
> of a hill in a storm-prone area, so the UPS is a good idea.
>
> She might have a claim against City Council or possibly under her 
> contents insurance---but not worth the hassle.
>
> I've had the machine home here for last 3 days and it seems OK for the 
> light work she does---she won't be into video editing etc, so she'll 
> learn to live with it and just keep an eye on Speedfan.
>
> She's going to run it for 2 weeks without the Telstra modem connected 
> and see if it's OK. Then connect the modem and see if that causes any 
> problems.
>
> (An aside---I never saw a more useless manual in all my life than the 
> one which came with the Taiwanese-made UPS. Even the stylized 
> connection diagrams bear no resemblance whatsoever to the actual 
> machine. I thought it was the wrong manual, but the model numbers 
> match.  eg: "The warranty does not match the pleasure of your printer 
> connecting". I THINK they mean: "Don't connect the printer to the 
> UPS". Looks like it's been through several translation machines!)
>
> Don Penlington
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Tech Support Guy Mailing List
> http://www.tsgserver.com/list/
>

-- 
H Davis   hdavis1 at gmail.com



From deepend at tpg.com.au  Wed Jan 28 00:26:00 2009
From: deepend at tpg.com.au (Don Penlington)
Date: Wed, 28 Jan 2009 15:26:00 +1000
Subject: TSGL: CPU overheating
In-Reply-To: <497FD30D.3080407@gmail.com>
References: <4.3.2.20090128002254.00c661d0@mail.tpg.com.au>
	<4.3.2.20090127035312.00c63698@mail.tpg.com.au>
	<4.3.2.20090125131054.00c61fb0@mail.tpg.com.au>
	<4.3.2.20090125230803.00c70c00@mail.tpg.com.au>
	<5258CCE2B73749FBAADF335307DE3BA8@johnsp2>
	<4.3.2.20090127035312.00c63698@mail.tpg.com.au>
	<4.3.2.20090128002254.00c661d0@mail.tpg.com.au>
Message-ID: <4.3.2.20090128151351.00c70838@mail.tpg.com.au>

H Davis wrote:
>I don't think it pays to buy a cheap UPS.>>


Speaking as an EE, you're right of course.

BUT (and it's a big but) with the cost of a complete computer upgrade kit 
now, you'd pay more for a quality UPS than you'd pay for an average 
computer rebuild. So if you only have a regular basic computer, what's the 
point these days?

I reckon you're financially better off to take the risk of a computer 
blowout (it probably won't happen) rather than spend gazillions of dollars 
on protecting it when you can replace it for less than the cost of 
protection. And you'll end up with a bigger and better system after a year 
or so.

Provided, of course, that you have regular external backups of your vital 
stuff.

Just my own thoughts. Might not be good for everyone. Like if you're going 
to blow the system on a regular basis.

Don Penlington




From ian at iarp.ca  Wed Jan 28 00:50:33 2009
From: ian at iarp.ca (Ian Ramsey-Planck)
Date: Wed, 28 Jan 2009 00:50:33 -0500
Subject: TSGL: CPU overheating
In-Reply-To: <4.3.2.20090128151351.00c70838@mail.tpg.com.au>
References: <4.3.2.20090125131054.00c61fb0@mail.tpg.com.au>
	<4.3.2.20090125230803.00c70c00@mail.tpg.com.au>
	<5258CCE2B73749FBAADF335307DE3BA8@johnsp2>
	<4.3.2.20090127035312.00c63698@mail.tpg.com.au>
	<4.3.2.20090128002254.00c661d0@mail.tpg.com.au>
	<497FD30D.3080407@gmail.com>
	<4.3.2.20090128151351.00c70838@mail.tpg.com.au>
Message-ID: <adc2940c0901272150y40270853u5d61d7bc9d2f333f@mail.gmail.com>

Don,
It's natural law(newtons law?), that just as your about to save a huge chunk
of anything that you've just spent sometime on is when power drops out.
Someone told me that when helping average users "the user is stupid, unless
otherwise said so" so most average people that i've run into in my computer
life haven't thought to constantly save because they don't think these
things will happen to them. Until it does.

As well, i have a UPS system from APC that apparently came from my dads
store (over 10years ago now) and still runs my machine for 5ish minutes...
enough time to shutdown properly and maybe save me from losing a file thats
in the middle of being moved.

I currently have a 2.0GHz dual core machine with 2GB ram, XP Pro that i just
built and i'm updating, 160GB hdd that i paid $298 in parts. So yes i can
see where you'd go saying its cheaper to replace the parts but following the
same "the user is stupid" idea, with the UPS they'd have time to save and
finish properly.

On Wed, Jan 28, 2009 at 12:26 AM, Don Penlington <deepend at tpg.com.au> wrote:

> H Davis wrote:
>
>> I don't think it pays to buy a cheap UPS.>>
>
>
> Speaking as an EE, you're right of course.
>
> BUT (and it's a big but) with the cost of a complete computer upgrade kit
> now, you'd pay more for a quality UPS than you'd pay for an average computer
> rebuild. So if you only have a regular basic computer, what's the point
> these days?
>
> I reckon you're financially better off to take the risk of a computer
> blowout (it probably won't happen) rather than spend gazillions of dollars
> on protecting it when you can replace it for less than the cost of
> protection. And you'll end up with a bigger and better system after a year
> or so.
>
> Provided, of course, that you have regular external backups of your vital
> stuff.
>
> Just my own thoughts. Might not be good for everyone. Like if you're going
> to blow the system on a regular basis.
>
>
> Don Penlington
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Tech Support Guy Mailing List
> http://www.tsgserver.com/list/
>



-- 
Thanks
Ian R-P
Patience is a virtue.

From justin at whisperer.com.au  Wed Jan 28 03:48:20 2009
From: justin at whisperer.com.au (The Computer Whisperer)
Date: Wed, 28 Jan 2009 19:48:20 +1100
Subject: TSGL: CPU overheating
In-Reply-To: <4.3.2.20090128002254.00c661d0@mail.tpg.com.au>
References: <4.3.2.20090125131054.00c61fb0@mail.tpg.com.au>
	<4.3.2.20090125230803.00c70c00@mail.tpg.com.au>
	<5258CCE2B73749FBAADF335307DE3BA8@johnsp2>
	<4.3.2.20090127035312.00c63698@mail.tpg.com.au>
	<4.3.2.20090128002254.00c661d0@mail.tpg.com.au>
Message-ID: <2852b8d40901280048pbe71ba1yfe6a1e0a2c8e18d1@mail.gmail.com>

In Australia the electric company is liable as they have an obligation to
provide QOS or Quality Of Service.... in other words... the power provided
must be within a certain tolerance, otherwise they have not fulfilled their
contractual obligation as an electricity provider.


Replace the motherboard and CPU and do an In-Place Upgrade.

Mirror image first tho.

Regards,

Justin

2009/1/28 Don Penlington <deepend at tpg.com.au>

> Justin wrote:
>
>> Take it back under warranty...  you'll regret it if you don't>>
>>
>
>
> Good thought---but they won't cover it, She's already been back to the
> shop.
>
> They know about the power surge---it took out 2 phones and her microwave
> (Council was welding in the street outside and there was a "big bang").
> Luckily, the computer wasn't running at the time.
>
> They sold her a UPS in case it happens again. Also, she lives on top of a
> hill in a storm-prone area, so the UPS is a good idea.
>
> She might have a claim against City Council or possibly under her contents
> insurance---but not worth the hassle.
>
> I've had the machine home here for last 3 days and it seems OK for the
> light work she does---she won't be into video editing etc, so she'll learn
> to live with it and just keep an eye on Speedfan.
>
> She's going to run it for 2 weeks without the Telstra modem connected and
> see if it's OK. Then connect the modem and see if that causes any problems.
>
> (An aside---I never saw a more useless manual in all my life than the one
> which came with the Taiwanese-made UPS. Even the stylized connection
> diagrams bear no resemblance whatsoever to the actual machine. I thought it
> was the wrong manual, but the model numbers match.  eg: "The warranty does
> not match the pleasure of your printer connecting". I THINK they mean:
> "Don't connect the printer to the UPS". Looks like it's been through several
> translation machines!)
>
>
> Don Penlington
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Tech Support Guy Mailing List
> http://www.tsgserver.com/list/
>



-- 
http://www.whisperer.com.au

The Computer Whisperer - Gets you where you want to be.

Friendly on-site technical support - Home and Small Business Specialist.

Telephone: (03) 5979 1122
Mobile 0406 467 701

Servicing the Mornington Peninsula (Victoria, Australia)

From harleys at eastlink.ca  Wed Jan 28 08:20:33 2009
From: harleys at eastlink.ca (Sanford House)
Date: Wed, 28 Jan 2009 09:20:33 -0400
Subject: TSGL: Making your windows box a little more seruce
Message-ID: <3FE58F42759147DABBC685BA3470A56E@SHCCTowerP4dualcore>

Hi
I just read an article from a quarterly mag "2600 the hacker quarterly" Volume 25 #4, http://www.2600.org/   and I have made a list of the steps suggested to make a windows installation more secure.
I am wondering what the group thoughts are on the steps, or if anyone has anything to ad.
1. Unplug the Internet cable
2. Reboot with Windows XP CD.
3. Perform a full NTFS format
4. Set a very strong password for administrator 
5.Do not enter names for accounts during install. (accounts created here will be administrator accounts)
6. Create a single account called "super user"(or a name to your liking). 
7. Turn on windows firewall
8. Reconnect ethernet cable
9. Activate windows,& update using windows update.
10. Make a "clean start" system restore point.
11. Go to user accounts & create restricted accounts for yourself & family members.
12. Set a suitably strong password for the "super user" account.
12. Turn off fast user switching.
13. Perform fresh installs of security software and firewalls, and restore backed-up user data.

I f there are any question about the steps, I can try to explain, from the article, his reasons for the items.


>From the cold winter here in Nova Scotia,
Harley 

From justin at whisperer.com.au  Wed Jan 28 08:31:16 2009
From: justin at whisperer.com.au (The Computer Whisperer)
Date: Thu, 29 Jan 2009 00:31:16 +1100
Subject: TSGL: Making your windows box a little more seruce
In-Reply-To: <3FE58F42759147DABBC685BA3470A56E@SHCCTowerP4dualcore>
References: <3FE58F42759147DABBC685BA3470A56E@SHCCTowerP4dualcore>
Message-ID: <2852b8d40901280531x5b14d9aey8e9cba758477ac26@mail.gmail.com>

I like this list... it's quite a direct way of doing things and I like it's
style.... although... between steps 6 and 7, you should install an antivirus
product

2009/1/29 Sanford House <harleys at eastlink.ca>

> Hi
> I just read an article from a quarterly mag "2600 the hacker quarterly"
> Volume 25 #4, http://www.2600.org/   and I have made a list of the steps
> suggested to make a windows installation more secure.
> I am wondering what the group thoughts are on the steps, or if anyone has
> anything to ad.
> 1. Unplug the Internet cable
> 2. Reboot with Windows XP CD.
> 3. Perform a full NTFS format
> 4. Set a very strong password for administrator
> 5.Do not enter names for accounts during install. (accounts created here
> will be administrator accounts)
> 6. Create a single account called "super user"(or a name to your liking).
> 7. Turn on windows firewall
> 8. Reconnect ethernet cable
> 9. Activate windows,& update using windows update.
> 10. Make a "clean start" system restore point.
> 11. Go to user accounts & create restricted accounts for yourself & family
> members.
> 12. Set a suitably strong password for the "super user" account.
> 12. Turn off fast user switching.
> 13. Perform fresh installs of security software and firewalls, and restore
> backed-up user data.
>
> I f there are any question about the steps, I can try to explain, from the
> article, his reasons for the items.
>
>
> >From the cold winter here in Nova Scotia,
> Harley
> _______________________________________________
> Tech Support Guy Mailing List
> http://www.tsgserver.com/list/
>



-- 
http://www.whisperer.com.au

The Computer Whisperer - Gets you where you want to be.

Friendly on-site technical support - Home and Small Business Specialist.

Telephone: (03) 5979 1122
Mobile 0406 467 701

Servicing the Mornington Peninsula (Victoria, Australia)

From deepend at tpg.com.au  Wed Jan 28 18:42:52 2009
From: deepend at tpg.com.au (Don Penlington)
Date: Thu, 29 Jan 2009 09:42:52 +1000
Subject: TSGL:  Making your windows box a little more seruce
Message-ID: <4.3.2.20090129093107.00c53178@mail.tpg.com.au>


>steps suggested to make a windows installation more secure.>>


They seem to have missed out what I think is the most important factor of 
all---get a good ISP.

With good filters set at the ISP end, viruses, phishing emails, etc won't 
even make it as far as your computer. And they should be far more up to 
date with latest security developments that you'll ever be.

You can test your ISP filters easily enough---just try to email the test 
eicar virus file to yourself (it's a harmless test file which is designed 
to emulate a virus). If I do that, not only will my ISP block the email 
from going out, I'll get a stern warning from them that my computer has 
been compromised and to mend my ways or they'll cut me off.

Don Penlington




From leebunyard at comcast.net  Sat Jan 31 11:58:43 2009
From: leebunyard at comcast.net (Lee Bunyard)
Date: Sat, 31 Jan 2009 08:58:43 -0800
Subject: TSGL: Windows. Net Framework--Is This an Important Update??
Message-ID: <49848343.1030406@comcast.net>

Windows Update has been showing that there is an update rated 
"important" called Windows.Net Framework needed on my HP Pavillion 
desktop pc running Vista Premium Home Edition.  I've heard of this 
before but am not really sure what it is and how important it is.  I 
Googled it and read the Wikipedia description, which talked 
aboutWindows.Net Framework being a programming network, etc. etc.  Since 
I don't do programming, it wasn't really clear whether I actually needed 
to download the update but I went ahead and did so anyway.  It was over 
a 50 MB download and took quite awhile to install, but it seemed to 
setup OK and the pc is working fine so all is good.  But I wondered if 
someone could tell me more about what this update is and is it really 
important to have it installed??

One of the reasons I'm asking this is that I'm also getting a Windows 
Update prompt on my laptop (running XP) telling me I should download the 
Windows.Net Framework update for it.  That update is much larger, shown 
as being over 240 MB.  I haven't downloaded it yet.

Any info or advice appreciated.
Lee in the Mountains of Northern California

From deepend at tpg.com.au  Sat Jan 31 18:59:12 2009
From: deepend at tpg.com.au (Don Penlington)
Date: Sun, 01 Feb 2009 09:59:12 +1000
Subject: TSGL: Windows. Net Framework--Is This an Important Update??
In-Reply-To: <49848343.1030406@comcast.net>
Message-ID: <4.3.2.20090201094840.00c6a590@mail.tpg.com.au>

Lee wrote:
>Windows Update has been showing that there is an update rated "important" 
>called Windows.Net Framework>>


Depends what you do on your computer. The Net framework is a set of files 
to enable programmers to write software without having to "re-invent the 
wheel"--in other words, they don't have to include in their programs a 
whole lot of common files which will already be on your computer if you 
have the Net framewok.

Net3 is the latest set of these files.  You will not need them if you don't 
install any new software.

Eventually, if you install a lot of new software, you will need them if the 
programmers who wrote that program have used this framework. Because it's 
new, there's probably not yet much software using it. But that's sure to 
increase.

So it really gets back to your computer. If you already have everything you 
need, you won't need it.

I haven't heard of any problems with it.

Most PC magazines include it on their free disks. What I've done is to have 
the setup files for Net3 sitting on my computer ready to install if 
anything should need them. So far, nothing has.

Don Penlington




From wseehorn at earthlink.net  Sat Jan 31 20:49:46 2009
From: wseehorn at earthlink.net (Willard Seehorn)
Date: Sat, 31 Jan 2009 20:49:46 -0500
Subject: TSGL: AVG anti spyware
In-Reply-To: <4.3.2.20090201094840.00c6a590@mail.tpg.com.au>
References: <49848343.1030406@comcast.net>
	<4.3.2.20090201094840.00c6a590@mail.tpg.com.au>
Message-ID: <6.2.1.2.2.20090131204757.01f1a2c8@pop.earthlink.net>

Booted my laptop (first time in a while) the other day. AVG anti spyware 
complained that it couldn't find the server to update it's definitions.

Went to AVG's site, couldn't find mention of the program. Has AVG dropped 
the free version? If so, what recommendations for a replacement?

Willard 

From ian at iarp.ca  Sat Jan 31 23:58:17 2009
From: ian at iarp.ca (Ian Ramsey-Planck)
Date: Sat, 31 Jan 2009 23:58:17 -0500
Subject: TSGL: AVG anti spyware
In-Reply-To: <6.2.1.2.2.20090131204757.01f1a2c8@pop.earthlink.net>
References: <49848343.1030406@comcast.net>
	<4.3.2.20090201094840.00c6a590@mail.tpg.com.au>
	<6.2.1.2.2.20090131204757.01f1a2c8@pop.earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <adc2940c0901312058h5e102a2en519101faf0fa39a8@mail.gmail.com>

http://free.avg.com/ althought i'd recommend www.avast.com. Down to personal
preference.

On Sat, Jan 31, 2009 at 8:49 PM, Willard Seehorn <wseehorn at earthlink.net>wrote:

> Booted my laptop (first time in a while) the other day. AVG anti spyware
> complained that it couldn't find the server to update it's definitions.
>
> Went to AVG's site, couldn't find mention of the program. Has AVG dropped
> the free version? If so, what recommendations for a replacement?
>
> Willard _______________________________________________
> Tech Support Guy Mailing List
> http://www.tsgserver.com/list/
>



-- 
Thanks
Ian R-P
Patience is a virtue.